This is a particularly good example of where understanding their language makes a difference (which of course is what you are here to translate for). It's always a two track message; Christian Nationalists know exactly what they mean when they say these things, but there's room for plausible deniability to everyone else, to claim that it's really just a 'normal', 'mainstream' message. Although they cite the bible so heavily that deniability is not quite so plausible in my opinion. That's why we point to their actions in government; those demonstrate what the words mean such that there should be no doubt.
I read this paragraph out loud to my husband and as soon as I said “family supporting job” singular, he stopped me for quite a colorful discussion. He never would’ve picked up on that without this work.
And yes, they can gaslight and deny and call this a mainstream message all they want, but there’s too much of this “men work; women mother” pontificating online now. We’re going to look at specific things Fascist Republicans have said in relation to this tomorrow or Thursday.
Going forward, I hope I’m training people to see this language for themselves. That has always been my goal: To empower Americans to recognize and reject this without having to experience the associated trauma of living it.
I'm no expert on the Bible or what gets termed "Judeo-Christianism," but I do know a bit about translation, and the King James version is known to have fallen into some traps. For example, the words "man" and "mankind." Everett Fox did a "literal" translation of the Pentateuch about 30 years ago (Schocken Bible). He translated the passage in question as:
God said:
Let us make humankind, in our image, according to our likeness!
They shall have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, animals, all the earth, and all crawling things that crawl about on the earth!
There's a big difference between the ambiguous "man" and "humankind." In the latter reading "they" refers to both men and women. Not that Judaism paid much attention to such fine points, a minyan consisting of the requisite number of men. Don't get me started on Orthodox Judaism.
Then there's the matter of "dominion." I don't know the Hebrew (Fox certainly does), and I have no idea what the word actually meant when originally written. Translating ancient texts is tricky, first because you can't ask the authors what they meant, and second because we are trapped in our own language habits. A lot of mischief can be done in the space between the two.
I use the KJV because it was what I learned in the Christian Nationalist church and school of my youth. I think many of those churches lean on and prefer this translation BECAUSE of its deficiencies. It used patriarchal language in place of more inclusive words and gave words like “dominion” added weight that weren’t in the original texts. It helps them build a flawed case for their worldview. Of course, they don’t delve into alternate translations for words. They use the one that best suits their goals.
That is ultimately the point: they use whatever best suits their goals. But Kathryn is right to suspect translation because there is no such thing as a "definitive" one. For example, in a different area, patent litigation, the opposing sides may each produce a translation of pertinent material -- that favors their side. It's an open question whether actual dishonesty is involved. In the case of the KJV, which was a team effort, they probably translated to the best of their understanding.
Same thing happens when valuing land or businesses. Each side (buyer and seller) commissions valuations that are higher or lower depending on whose side one is on.
The book I read about the KJV translation focused on the ultimate goals of James VI and I more than on the accuracy of the translation. He wanted it to be pretty and poetic and harmonious, the written fashion of the day. And like you said, "accuracy" is a relative term. We don't always know how the meaning of the original word has evolved, for example. Or what the writer or writers discussed or considered to put those specific words on the page.
In the case of Christian Nationalists, many of them like this translation because it supports their worldview. And even when it doesn't, they twist things around to make it so.
Though I not schooled in translation, it was the first issue that came to mind while reading today’s piece. Wish I had something more intelligent to add, but I appreciated your comment.
I like your comment. I recently read an old book “The Gospel According to Jesus Christ” it was about translation, editing and the Christian advocates who added items that gave a very inaccurate version of the Bible. Very interesting and I believe it. Sadly religious groups such as CN choose what fits their narrative.
This is one of many reasons faith documents should not be used as the basis of our laws. There are too many different interpretations of the same verses BY CHRISTIANS, let alone what scholars and academics might make of them. And we still can't know the translation isn't corrupted.
I just finished reading a wonderful book over the weekend that should spur us all on to defeat Project 2025. It is titled: The Woman They Could Not Silence, One Woman, her Incredible Fight for Freedom, and the Men Who Tried to Make Her Disappear, by Kate Moore. In 1860, Elizabeth Packard was sent to an insane asylum by her husband over a theological dispute. She was not insane and discovered there were many other women like her in the asylum. Her battle to free herself and then her "sisters" is a remarkable and riveting story.
Sounds fascinating and I too would like to read it. Thanks for sharing. I’ve always pondered if women back then who didn’t comply with social norms were sent away. I hypothesized yes 😠
Did it never occur to these people that some women are temperamentally ill-equipped to mother? Some women are not cut out for it at all, and for them to take on children would be a manifest disaster for all concerned. What answer do they proffer in response to this impediment?
They believe God meant for women to be Godly Wives and mothers. If God gives a woman a pregnancy, it is his will that she carry and mother that baby. If she loses the pregnancy, God is punishing her or otherwise saying she wasn’t ready and needed that trial for a future pregnancy. They don’t care what women want (clearly they don’t. They demonstrate this again and again and again.)
So in my case, I never wanted a child. But what I wanted was selfish and didn’t matter, because God made me to be a Godly Wife and mother. (We took a deep dive into this last week in case you missed it.) To them, I am “away from the Lord” and made choices that are “outside his will” and am an example of what happens to people who “stray from the church and its teachings.” It does not matter if I say, “I have prayed about this, and God and I are in agreement about my childlessness. He has something else for me.” They always claim to know better than women do about their own heart, mind, and body. Telling women they must have children is fundamental to who Christian Nationalists are. Forcing women to give birth is nothing to them. Policing and punishing women for pregnancy outcomes and monitoring everything people who could be pregnant do, everywhere, all the time, is how far they will take this if we don’t stop them.
This is all very interesting (albeit depressing). Sounds like essentialist thinking. So, if I understand this correctly, even if a woman knows herself to have the makings of an unfit mother, she is supposed to ignore the warning signs and proceed full speed ahead anyway. Unhappy mother, miserable children not a problem. The only exit seems to be celibacy, and my guess from what you are saying is that people who make that choice would be shunned. Or, if a woman bears one child, but refuses to bear more (and practices birth control), she would still be guilty of thwarting the will of the Almighty.
It also sounds like there is an underpinning belief that all women, by sheer dint of having a uterus, will naturally want children and will automatically adjust to, and be happy with, being mothers. Sheesh....
I was always told that I would change my mind as soon as I laid eyes on my newborn. That all my misgivings would melt away and I would be thrilled. No wonder so many women suffer from postpartum depression. Many probably suffer more from it for being surrounded by such unsupportive, dreadful people who say garbage like this. I mean, one of my CN friends had a child, and her husband FORCED HER TO BREASTFEED. He got in her face as her milk didn't come in and nothing worked and the baby was screaming, and he screamed at her with a Bible in his hand that she had to breastfeed because it was "better for the baby." He did this in front of her mother, because that's how "not unusual" it is for men in that world to act like this. When she tried to go back to work against his wishes, he didn't feed the baby while she was gone on a work trip. It's unfortunately pretty typical.
Christian Nationalists don't believe women know their own minds. Her mind belongs to her husband; her body is a temple for God. This foundational belief runs through every law red states have passed about abortion. You will routinely see them saying things about women being too emotional or unstable to make good decisions. It's what they will use to limit free movement and prosecute people for pregnancy outcomes (already happening in states like Alabama). Women are property to these people. All that matters is what the owner wants; property doesn't get a say.
The idea that not all women are “fit” to be mothers is important. Even if they are, staying home with a child 24/7 is actually crazy making.
I watched my 18 month old granddaughter this past long weekend and I seriously don’t think I can watch her for more than one night again until she’s older. It required 100% involvement in her world while she was awake. She’s beyond adorable but I have to think about my mental health and it was also very physically demanding.
My husband said that child care workers should make $50 an hour, at least.
New respect for them and all mothers. Absolutely No One should be forced to have children!
I don’t know what it’s like to be a mom, but I imagine it’s tough even when one wants it. Or like you as a grandmother realizing your own needs even as you love your grandchild. Acknowledging our needs is essential to loving others, including children we choose to have. Sometimes, choosing not to be a mom is the most loving decision she could make for a future child. Every person who can be pregnant should get to make that choice and have that choice be respected by society.
I’m curious about what happens to women like me who can’t have kids, never married and have worked my whole life. I’m also white so I imagine the punishment from these people will be nothing short of deadly. I know how Kevin Roberts and JD Vance feel about women like me. But what happens to us if these knuckleheads take over?
They don't address what happens to career women who never married and now cannot have children. I don't wonder how they feel about such women. (I'm married but never had and now cannot have children.) We are supposedly miserable in our lives and should have made different choices. I hope they will leave us to our purported "misery" should they come to power, though I don't expect that to happen in my case given this work.
Thank you for your response! I appreciate it! I’m just living my most miserable life out here! Doing nothing but cry all day about my horrifically miserable life.
It’s always projection with these folks. JD Vance is not going to convince me he’s happy. He’s the least unicorn-sparkly person I can think of.
I do think if they take power we will force us to lead miserable lives.
I listened to the Freedom over Fascism podcast you did. Well done! Keep up the good work and thank you so much ☺️
The only people who won't live in misery are the billionaire overlords funding this fascist moment and the politicians and lackeys who enable them (for as long as they are useful.) I already think most of these people are miserable, but being miserable and being forced to live in misery are different.
I agree with you. I feel very fortunate to not be miserable but that’s after years of therapy and having the right tools to cope with life. I also think childless, single women are happy - I’m very happy overall with my life. I’ve had a fabulous and fun career that included running a modeling agency, being a lady DJ, working in finance, and now marketing for a museum. I can’t complain. Aside from not traveling overseas as much as I’d like. If Trump wins, however, I may be living overseas, so maybe that dream will come true!
Thank you again for writing back and for all the amazing work you do!
We are not going back. I saw the energy of the youth and I don't think they will accept what DT or JDV has in store for them. I wish you could get one of these hugs here. https://youtu.be/7XgnIe86i-M?si=IfOPa5rpPzvJaSWi
I hope more people are waking up to the horrors of these two. I try not to look at polls, but I did over the weekend and got very discouraged. I can’t believe this race is this close. It should be a blowout.
How will they force this with all of us old people? I mean really, how will they? Oh, I think I know. They will take away our pensions we earned teaching in the public schools, even though I also raised five kids before that by doing my mothering thing. Then, I guess they’ll force into old folks homes. I wonder what those will look like. Seriously, what is the plan for seniors? All of this is too real. I know in my bones they mean to do this if they get the chance, and they’ll keep on trying to get the chance.
They want to privatize social security and Medicare. Which will mean a shrinkage of benefits and a massive increase of byzantine rules and minutiae. For a long time, they've been working to get their hands on pension funds (in terms of allowing riskier fund managers and the like to manage them.) Project 2025 specifically decries pension funds. I'm bookmarking your question to cover next week.
I'm a pensioner also; like you, I earned it doing Civil Service. Wouldn't they love to rip those pensions away and leave us destitute. In addition, I married a woman when she was too old to become pregnant! I'm waiting for the CNs to proclaim that, once the woman no longer can bake and push out babies OR have grandkids to care for, that such marriages are abominations because they no longer mean we have "skin in the game" of our Country's future.
I wouldn't be surprised if they said we can't vote (male or female married without kids) because our two-person family doesn't have "skin in the game." (My husband and I don't have kids or grandkids, either.)
I figure they wouldn't stop at voting. After all, non-procreative sex is a sin, right? Even in marriage? The reason they want the young to get married is to maximize the number of kids. Geezers getting married has non-procreative sex written all over it. Then there's subsequent marriages of divorcees and widowers. So much sin! Shouldn't there be laws against all that in a Christo Fascist state?
I know donold denies even knowing about 2025, while jd expounds on it. Thanks to you, Andra and others we are learning so much about this heinous document. My question is do the run of the mill republicans know about it? I remember reading a statistic a few months ago that only 3% of republicans knew about it and 35% of democrats knew. I wonder how many know now. Sometimes I feel like we know so much more than the average voter. The way they spew Bible verses to defend their points is disgusting. After reading this I am even more committed in my resolve to not let doom and gloom get anywhere near the White House.
The run of the mill Republicans in my life don't care. They say Democrats are fear-mongering and trying to scare everyone. They insist it can't be as bad as it is being portrayed. If they get their news from rightwing media, they absolutely aren't learning about it.
An additional subtle point Conservatives mean when they talk about "good jobs" is that they always relate to some activity that ultimately makes someone who is already rich (i.e., the CEO) even richer. In other words, a "private sector job." "Public sector" jobs are to be shunned in general. As an example of what Public Sector employment can be, and why Conservatives can't seem to stomach it, the Washington Post just started a series highlighting the "rock stars" of the Civil Service. You'll recall that I'm a retired Federal engineer. The first person highlighted by the WaPo is another engineer. I'll say I recognize myself in his story and career, although we never met. It's a long read (sorry) but near the end is a graph that should be its own front page headline: "Eliminating Enforcement of Federal Regulations a la P2025 Will Increase Death Rates in Mines." Because this Federal Engineer drove the death rate from mine ceiling collapses down to zero by applying engineering principles, then making sure the companies drilling for coal were forced to follow his plans. Of course, P2025 wants to eliminate this kind of thing. Here's the link:
My husband has worked as a civil servant for much of his career, too. (City and state level, not federal.) And he has endured the usual trashing of his intelligence and work ethic for being a civil servant in a blood red state.
And private sector jobs don't only make CEOs richer. They make the billionaire oligarch 1% richer. That's really what they're after: pushing as much money up to the top as they can. It's harder for them to do that with public sector jobs, though the amount of taxpayer funding they take for their private businesses is obscene. And then they don't pay taxes.
Andra, a German friend of mine whose grandfather was a Nazi eugenicist sent me an article by Wesley Smith in the National Review about physician-assisted suicide and wanted to know what I thought. Smith, it turns out, is a proponent of "human exceptionalism" and opposes animal rights. It seems to me that this is at least consistent with Dominionism. Are you familiar with his writings? In your opinion, am I reading him correctly?
I searched for the article you reference and read it, Kenneth. I don't want to link to it here, but anyone can find it by typing "Wesley j smith physician assisted suicide national review" into a search engine.
I can't say that Smith is a Dominionist, but his belief in human exceptionalism is consistent with that crowd. They are also militantly against assisted suicide of any kind, even by medical professionals. Project 2025 repeatedly states that they mean to protect life "from conception to natural death." They devote an entire section, which I haven't covered, to the importance of outlawing all euthanasia and forcing everyone into palliative care.
Andra, why do you think that he wants Family labor statistics collected monthly as opposed to yearly. I am not saying it is a bad idea, but it would be costly. Why is it so important? Why should monthly data on family well being be in the Dept. of Labor?
Everything about Project 2025 would be costly. It is a massive expansion of government into every aspect of our lives. They want to track every pregnancy. They want access to voter rolls. They want to be in our bedrooms policing our private behaviors. In this case, because they want to make sure families are functioning according to their vision.
Andra, I appreciate the links to earlier discussions of Labor as well as this one. My Democrats Abroad group is reading and discussing Chapter 18, Department of Labor and Related Agencies for our discussion next week. So, it is really helping me to think about the material. I think Jeff Bezoz sold a percentage of his stocks worrying that the economy will be bad under Trump, even though he is supporting Trump in the campaign for tax reasons. Where is he going to put his money? As for the idea that there has been one man supporting the family alone, that is a myth propagated by television. For most of history, women worked too. Just the super wealthy did not once we evolved enough to have leisure time. Otherwise, even if the man went out to work and the woman stayed home, she often took in work to make ends meet. I am a history major and that is what I learned. So, right there was have yet another chapter with unattainable goals for people. Even Trad wives are bringing in money from their YouTube channels. It is efficient. Do the things you have to do, and then get others to watch you so you get paid by ads. Then will be the inevitable books and/or speaking engagements. I have several Morman families where I live in the states. Only one woman, who has 5 sons, does not work out of them. One is a partner in a law firm. Another is a children's book author. That includes her going on the road when she gets a new book and leaving her youngest with child care, and having cleaning help. Another neighbor was stay at home, but in summers she and her oldest daughters ran a camp for all the children. Then her husband had a bike accident, brain trauma and she went to graduate school to become a teacher, and then started teaching. So, even traditional wives which are not really traditional at all, are not guaranteed a life where there are absolutely no problems and things just go smoothly like in Leave It To Beaver. Women all over the world work. However, I am in a European country that also promotes that idea of the stay at home mom. What it is, is that there has not been enough child care and women got 3 years off from work paid in part for each child. Still, it is hard to afford children in the US unless you are very wealthy with only one income. Women that I know still do most of the home stuff, child care and work. That is something that the Republicans do not address. We are all wondering whether JD Vance's wife, that he met in Law School at Yale, works or stays home? We know he has held his mother-in-law up as being a role model because she took a sabbatical for from her job as a professor, to come and help them raise their children. It sounds like that is something their family could afford, but many cannot. Again and again, the Republican party acts like you are a sinner if you are poor. It is so un Christian of them.
I made the point about Bezos in an earlier newsletter. I'm sure he put the funds in an overseas tax shelter or some such, but he didn't have to publicly report what he did with the proceeds.
This attack on women working outside the home is highly coordinated. It is designed to do away with all advancements women have gained in the past 150 years and will return women and children to being a man's property. That is the goal. Then if the man says it's ok for his property to work in some capacity and put the proceeds in his bank account (because property won't have her own bank account), that would be allowed. It isn't that they don't want women to work; they don't want women to have independence or choices or the ability to leave.
Andra, I am older than you and I remembered when my aunt got divorced in the 70s, and had worked her entire life along with her husband and purchased a house together with him, my mom told me she had no credit from that. It all went to him. No credit cards, etc... She of course got sole custody of my cousin, and instead of demanding alimony, she asked for the house, which they had paid off. She then went on to earn, although he also gave child support. A neighbor of hers worked all her life, and supported her husband through graduate school. Then, when he was teaching, he fell in love with a colleague and they got married. She got the house, no alimony, and full custody of their son. Of course back then, dads would choose to spend time with their sons, but it was not like it is now, where 50-50. custody arrangements are more common. So, it seems like we are going back to the middle of the last century in some things, and the middle ages in others. Usha Vance should be weighing how good her example is going to be for her daughter, or daughters if she has more. Wow! A Chinese friend of mine wanted her daughter to go to Yale to marry a Yalie. That is when our daughter's were 5, that was the plan. I had my own thoughts about that. Anyway, her daughter did not get into Harvard or Yale, but is at a good University, and is in pre-med, planning her own career, and not thinking about whether it will lead to a husband from Yale or her University. She is 19. I am glad. Still, my friend's daughter who moved to Portugal, with her husband who is from India, says that her husband's mom and grandmother will come to live with them when she has the baby to help out. I say lucky her, because I know she is going to have some great Indian cooking, although I found some good Indian restaurants in Lisbon too. Still, I knew that this was tradition. It is probably hard to follow this tradition unless you have money. It is a double whammy that people in CN churches are taught to blame the poor and others who are vulnerable and struggling for their own problems. People must really spend a lot of time hiding this stuff from each other in such churches.
One does spend a lot of time hiding things in Christian Nationalist environments, as any normal trial of life can be construed as God's judgment. It took me ages and ages to undo this part of my programming, to realize that bad things happen in life and have nothing to do with God punishing me for choices I made or failed to make. This really came to a head when I was at my lowest point. (I have an incurable parasitic disease that has caused partial blindness in one eye but it attacks all organs. I'm lucky it chose an eye and not my heart or my lungs or my brain, which are fatal. This is the biggest reason I live the way I do, because every time I blink, I see that I could drop dead at any moment. It is in remission now, but treatments for parasitic diseases are brutal. The mental and physical side effects led me to this lowest point.) Anyway, I made the mistake of reaching out to my Christian Nationalist parents for empathy during this lowest point. It took them telling me this disease is God judging me for my sinful choices for me to finally tackle that part of my programming. Because I would never EVER want to make another person feel like that made me feel at their lowest moment. (I often say undoing this indoctrination is life-long work. This is an example. The programming sits there until something triggers it, and I find another cache to undo and reprogram.) Why would anyone in these churches mention personal struggles if this is what they get in response? So yes, they are hotbeds of broken people who cannot do self-reflection or analysis but are hiding all kinds of things from everyone else.
This is a particularly good example of where understanding their language makes a difference (which of course is what you are here to translate for). It's always a two track message; Christian Nationalists know exactly what they mean when they say these things, but there's room for plausible deniability to everyone else, to claim that it's really just a 'normal', 'mainstream' message. Although they cite the bible so heavily that deniability is not quite so plausible in my opinion. That's why we point to their actions in government; those demonstrate what the words mean such that there should be no doubt.
I read this paragraph out loud to my husband and as soon as I said “family supporting job” singular, he stopped me for quite a colorful discussion. He never would’ve picked up on that without this work.
And yes, they can gaslight and deny and call this a mainstream message all they want, but there’s too much of this “men work; women mother” pontificating online now. We’re going to look at specific things Fascist Republicans have said in relation to this tomorrow or Thursday.
Going forward, I hope I’m training people to see this language for themselves. That has always been my goal: To empower Americans to recognize and reject this without having to experience the associated trauma of living it.
🙏
Yes!
I'm no expert on the Bible or what gets termed "Judeo-Christianism," but I do know a bit about translation, and the King James version is known to have fallen into some traps. For example, the words "man" and "mankind." Everett Fox did a "literal" translation of the Pentateuch about 30 years ago (Schocken Bible). He translated the passage in question as:
God said:
Let us make humankind, in our image, according to our likeness!
They shall have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, animals, all the earth, and all crawling things that crawl about on the earth!
There's a big difference between the ambiguous "man" and "humankind." In the latter reading "they" refers to both men and women. Not that Judaism paid much attention to such fine points, a minyan consisting of the requisite number of men. Don't get me started on Orthodox Judaism.
Then there's the matter of "dominion." I don't know the Hebrew (Fox certainly does), and I have no idea what the word actually meant when originally written. Translating ancient texts is tricky, first because you can't ask the authors what they meant, and second because we are trapped in our own language habits. A lot of mischief can be done in the space between the two.
I use the KJV because it was what I learned in the Christian Nationalist church and school of my youth. I think many of those churches lean on and prefer this translation BECAUSE of its deficiencies. It used patriarchal language in place of more inclusive words and gave words like “dominion” added weight that weren’t in the original texts. It helps them build a flawed case for their worldview. Of course, they don’t delve into alternate translations for words. They use the one that best suits their goals.
That is ultimately the point: they use whatever best suits their goals. But Kathryn is right to suspect translation because there is no such thing as a "definitive" one. For example, in a different area, patent litigation, the opposing sides may each produce a translation of pertinent material -- that favors their side. It's an open question whether actual dishonesty is involved. In the case of the KJV, which was a team effort, they probably translated to the best of their understanding.
Same thing happens when valuing land or businesses. Each side (buyer and seller) commissions valuations that are higher or lower depending on whose side one is on.
The book I read about the KJV translation focused on the ultimate goals of James VI and I more than on the accuracy of the translation. He wanted it to be pretty and poetic and harmonious, the written fashion of the day. And like you said, "accuracy" is a relative term. We don't always know how the meaning of the original word has evolved, for example. Or what the writer or writers discussed or considered to put those specific words on the page.
In the case of Christian Nationalists, many of them like this translation because it supports their worldview. And even when it doesn't, they twist things around to make it so.
Though I not schooled in translation, it was the first issue that came to mind while reading today’s piece. Wish I had something more intelligent to add, but I appreciated your comment.
Though I AM not schooled?
I like your comment. I recently read an old book “The Gospel According to Jesus Christ” it was about translation, editing and the Christian advocates who added items that gave a very inaccurate version of the Bible. Very interesting and I believe it. Sadly religious groups such as CN choose what fits their narrative.
Thanks Andra as always for your advocacy
This is one of many reasons faith documents should not be used as the basis of our laws. There are too many different interpretations of the same verses BY CHRISTIANS, let alone what scholars and academics might make of them. And we still can't know the translation isn't corrupted.
I just finished reading a wonderful book over the weekend that should spur us all on to defeat Project 2025. It is titled: The Woman They Could Not Silence, One Woman, her Incredible Fight for Freedom, and the Men Who Tried to Make Her Disappear, by Kate Moore. In 1860, Elizabeth Packard was sent to an insane asylum by her husband over a theological dispute. She was not insane and discovered there were many other women like her in the asylum. Her battle to free herself and then her "sisters" is a remarkable and riveting story.
I’d love to read that (and am not at all surprised this happened to women.)
I have known this has happened, and still happens with less frequency, to women.
Sounds fascinating and I too would like to read it. Thanks for sharing. I’ve always pondered if women back then who didn’t comply with social norms were sent away. I hypothesized yes 😠
Did it never occur to these people that some women are temperamentally ill-equipped to mother? Some women are not cut out for it at all, and for them to take on children would be a manifest disaster for all concerned. What answer do they proffer in response to this impediment?
They believe God meant for women to be Godly Wives and mothers. If God gives a woman a pregnancy, it is his will that she carry and mother that baby. If she loses the pregnancy, God is punishing her or otherwise saying she wasn’t ready and needed that trial for a future pregnancy. They don’t care what women want (clearly they don’t. They demonstrate this again and again and again.)
So in my case, I never wanted a child. But what I wanted was selfish and didn’t matter, because God made me to be a Godly Wife and mother. (We took a deep dive into this last week in case you missed it.) To them, I am “away from the Lord” and made choices that are “outside his will” and am an example of what happens to people who “stray from the church and its teachings.” It does not matter if I say, “I have prayed about this, and God and I are in agreement about my childlessness. He has something else for me.” They always claim to know better than women do about their own heart, mind, and body. Telling women they must have children is fundamental to who Christian Nationalists are. Forcing women to give birth is nothing to them. Policing and punishing women for pregnancy outcomes and monitoring everything people who could be pregnant do, everywhere, all the time, is how far they will take this if we don’t stop them.
This is all very interesting (albeit depressing). Sounds like essentialist thinking. So, if I understand this correctly, even if a woman knows herself to have the makings of an unfit mother, she is supposed to ignore the warning signs and proceed full speed ahead anyway. Unhappy mother, miserable children not a problem. The only exit seems to be celibacy, and my guess from what you are saying is that people who make that choice would be shunned. Or, if a woman bears one child, but refuses to bear more (and practices birth control), she would still be guilty of thwarting the will of the Almighty.
It also sounds like there is an underpinning belief that all women, by sheer dint of having a uterus, will naturally want children and will automatically adjust to, and be happy with, being mothers. Sheesh....
I was always told that I would change my mind as soon as I laid eyes on my newborn. That all my misgivings would melt away and I would be thrilled. No wonder so many women suffer from postpartum depression. Many probably suffer more from it for being surrounded by such unsupportive, dreadful people who say garbage like this. I mean, one of my CN friends had a child, and her husband FORCED HER TO BREASTFEED. He got in her face as her milk didn't come in and nothing worked and the baby was screaming, and he screamed at her with a Bible in his hand that she had to breastfeed because it was "better for the baby." He did this in front of her mother, because that's how "not unusual" it is for men in that world to act like this. When she tried to go back to work against his wishes, he didn't feed the baby while she was gone on a work trip. It's unfortunately pretty typical.
Christian Nationalists don't believe women know their own minds. Her mind belongs to her husband; her body is a temple for God. This foundational belief runs through every law red states have passed about abortion. You will routinely see them saying things about women being too emotional or unstable to make good decisions. It's what they will use to limit free movement and prosecute people for pregnancy outcomes (already happening in states like Alabama). Women are property to these people. All that matters is what the owner wants; property doesn't get a say.
This comment reminds me of this Lincoln Project video called State Line. https://youtu.be/3FGIyxhGkvo?si=gYcYNUBzOunRfgCI
Good one.
The idea that not all women are “fit” to be mothers is important. Even if they are, staying home with a child 24/7 is actually crazy making.
I watched my 18 month old granddaughter this past long weekend and I seriously don’t think I can watch her for more than one night again until she’s older. It required 100% involvement in her world while she was awake. She’s beyond adorable but I have to think about my mental health and it was also very physically demanding.
My husband said that child care workers should make $50 an hour, at least.
New respect for them and all mothers. Absolutely No One should be forced to have children!
I don’t know what it’s like to be a mom, but I imagine it’s tough even when one wants it. Or like you as a grandmother realizing your own needs even as you love your grandchild. Acknowledging our needs is essential to loving others, including children we choose to have. Sometimes, choosing not to be a mom is the most loving decision she could make for a future child. Every person who can be pregnant should get to make that choice and have that choice be respected by society.
Had the same experience with my 16-month old granddaughter. You are not alone!
I’m curious about what happens to women like me who can’t have kids, never married and have worked my whole life. I’m also white so I imagine the punishment from these people will be nothing short of deadly. I know how Kevin Roberts and JD Vance feel about women like me. But what happens to us if these knuckleheads take over?
They don't address what happens to career women who never married and now cannot have children. I don't wonder how they feel about such women. (I'm married but never had and now cannot have children.) We are supposedly miserable in our lives and should have made different choices. I hope they will leave us to our purported "misery" should they come to power, though I don't expect that to happen in my case given this work.
Thank you for your response! I appreciate it! I’m just living my most miserable life out here! Doing nothing but cry all day about my horrifically miserable life.
It’s always projection with these folks. JD Vance is not going to convince me he’s happy. He’s the least unicorn-sparkly person I can think of.
I do think if they take power we will force us to lead miserable lives.
I listened to the Freedom over Fascism podcast you did. Well done! Keep up the good work and thank you so much ☺️
The only people who won't live in misery are the billionaire overlords funding this fascist moment and the politicians and lackeys who enable them (for as long as they are useful.) I already think most of these people are miserable, but being miserable and being forced to live in misery are different.
I agree with you. I feel very fortunate to not be miserable but that’s after years of therapy and having the right tools to cope with life. I also think childless, single women are happy - I’m very happy overall with my life. I’ve had a fabulous and fun career that included running a modeling agency, being a lady DJ, working in finance, and now marketing for a museum. I can’t complain. Aside from not traveling overseas as much as I’d like. If Trump wins, however, I may be living overseas, so maybe that dream will come true!
Thank you again for writing back and for all the amazing work you do!
This is a Lincoln Project video about JD Vance called Flipper.
https://youtu.be/hJI_1uqCjmc?si=IMoHazEZ2dWyEpyr
I love the title of this one called JV vs Varsity.
https://youtu.be/wXCKxjFQuD8?si=0f8TK3HA0B9AWOQz
And this one called Sweet Treats really shows him for the awkward idiot that he is. https://youtu.be/63iQh2-ZFU8?si=EFDciZrf5lK-x77i
He is a buffoon. A role he has willingly taken on to incur favor with the worst man in America.
Here is another comparison of their Records. https://youtu.be/Ctq53YPkrF4?si=7wCN9RHRPX6t-iA0
We are not going back. I saw the energy of the youth and I don't think they will accept what DT or JDV has in store for them. I wish you could get one of these hugs here. https://youtu.be/7XgnIe86i-M?si=IfOPa5rpPzvJaSWi
Viva la Kamala!
I hope more people are waking up to the horrors of these two. I try not to look at polls, but I did over the weekend and got very discouraged. I can’t believe this race is this close. It should be a blowout.
How will they force this with all of us old people? I mean really, how will they? Oh, I think I know. They will take away our pensions we earned teaching in the public schools, even though I also raised five kids before that by doing my mothering thing. Then, I guess they’ll force into old folks homes. I wonder what those will look like. Seriously, what is the plan for seniors? All of this is too real. I know in my bones they mean to do this if they get the chance, and they’ll keep on trying to get the chance.
They want to privatize social security and Medicare. Which will mean a shrinkage of benefits and a massive increase of byzantine rules and minutiae. For a long time, they've been working to get their hands on pension funds (in terms of allowing riskier fund managers and the like to manage them.) Project 2025 specifically decries pension funds. I'm bookmarking your question to cover next week.
Thank you!
I'm a pensioner also; like you, I earned it doing Civil Service. Wouldn't they love to rip those pensions away and leave us destitute. In addition, I married a woman when she was too old to become pregnant! I'm waiting for the CNs to proclaim that, once the woman no longer can bake and push out babies OR have grandkids to care for, that such marriages are abominations because they no longer mean we have "skin in the game" of our Country's future.
I wouldn't be surprised if they said we can't vote (male or female married without kids) because our two-person family doesn't have "skin in the game." (My husband and I don't have kids or grandkids, either.)
I figure they wouldn't stop at voting. After all, non-procreative sex is a sin, right? Even in marriage? The reason they want the young to get married is to maximize the number of kids. Geezers getting married has non-procreative sex written all over it. Then there's subsequent marriages of divorcees and widowers. So much sin! Shouldn't there be laws against all that in a Christo Fascist state?
To fully follow their thru-lines is an exercise in utter dystopia.
The entire Project creepeth me out!
Me too, David. Me too.
Amen. It creepeth me out too!
I know donold denies even knowing about 2025, while jd expounds on it. Thanks to you, Andra and others we are learning so much about this heinous document. My question is do the run of the mill republicans know about it? I remember reading a statistic a few months ago that only 3% of republicans knew about it and 35% of democrats knew. I wonder how many know now. Sometimes I feel like we know so much more than the average voter. The way they spew Bible verses to defend their points is disgusting. After reading this I am even more committed in my resolve to not let doom and gloom get anywhere near the White House.
The run of the mill Republicans in my life don't care. They say Democrats are fear-mongering and trying to scare everyone. They insist it can't be as bad as it is being portrayed. If they get their news from rightwing media, they absolutely aren't learning about it.
An additional subtle point Conservatives mean when they talk about "good jobs" is that they always relate to some activity that ultimately makes someone who is already rich (i.e., the CEO) even richer. In other words, a "private sector job." "Public sector" jobs are to be shunned in general. As an example of what Public Sector employment can be, and why Conservatives can't seem to stomach it, the Washington Post just started a series highlighting the "rock stars" of the Civil Service. You'll recall that I'm a retired Federal engineer. The first person highlighted by the WaPo is another engineer. I'll say I recognize myself in his story and career, although we never met. It's a long read (sorry) but near the end is a graph that should be its own front page headline: "Eliminating Enforcement of Federal Regulations a la P2025 Will Increase Death Rates in Mines." Because this Federal Engineer drove the death rate from mine ceiling collapses down to zero by applying engineering principles, then making sure the companies drilling for coal were forced to follow his plans. Of course, P2025 wants to eliminate this kind of thing. Here's the link:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/interactive/2024/michael-lewis-chris-marks-the-canary-who-is-government/
My husband has worked as a civil servant for much of his career, too. (City and state level, not federal.) And he has endured the usual trashing of his intelligence and work ethic for being a civil servant in a blood red state.
And private sector jobs don't only make CEOs richer. They make the billionaire oligarch 1% richer. That's really what they're after: pushing as much money up to the top as they can. It's harder for them to do that with public sector jobs, though the amount of taxpayer funding they take for their private businesses is obscene. And then they don't pay taxes.
Thanks. I forwarded your response to my friend.
Andra, a German friend of mine whose grandfather was a Nazi eugenicist sent me an article by Wesley Smith in the National Review about physician-assisted suicide and wanted to know what I thought. Smith, it turns out, is a proponent of "human exceptionalism" and opposes animal rights. It seems to me that this is at least consistent with Dominionism. Are you familiar with his writings? In your opinion, am I reading him correctly?
I searched for the article you reference and read it, Kenneth. I don't want to link to it here, but anyone can find it by typing "Wesley j smith physician assisted suicide national review" into a search engine.
I can't say that Smith is a Dominionist, but his belief in human exceptionalism is consistent with that crowd. They are also militantly against assisted suicide of any kind, even by medical professionals. Project 2025 repeatedly states that they mean to protect life "from conception to natural death." They devote an entire section, which I haven't covered, to the importance of outlawing all euthanasia and forcing everyone into palliative care.
Andra, why do you think that he wants Family labor statistics collected monthly as opposed to yearly. I am not saying it is a bad idea, but it would be costly. Why is it so important? Why should monthly data on family well being be in the Dept. of Labor?
Everything about Project 2025 would be costly. It is a massive expansion of government into every aspect of our lives. They want to track every pregnancy. They want access to voter rolls. They want to be in our bedrooms policing our private behaviors. In this case, because they want to make sure families are functioning according to their vision.
Andra, I appreciate the links to earlier discussions of Labor as well as this one. My Democrats Abroad group is reading and discussing Chapter 18, Department of Labor and Related Agencies for our discussion next week. So, it is really helping me to think about the material. I think Jeff Bezoz sold a percentage of his stocks worrying that the economy will be bad under Trump, even though he is supporting Trump in the campaign for tax reasons. Where is he going to put his money? As for the idea that there has been one man supporting the family alone, that is a myth propagated by television. For most of history, women worked too. Just the super wealthy did not once we evolved enough to have leisure time. Otherwise, even if the man went out to work and the woman stayed home, she often took in work to make ends meet. I am a history major and that is what I learned. So, right there was have yet another chapter with unattainable goals for people. Even Trad wives are bringing in money from their YouTube channels. It is efficient. Do the things you have to do, and then get others to watch you so you get paid by ads. Then will be the inevitable books and/or speaking engagements. I have several Morman families where I live in the states. Only one woman, who has 5 sons, does not work out of them. One is a partner in a law firm. Another is a children's book author. That includes her going on the road when she gets a new book and leaving her youngest with child care, and having cleaning help. Another neighbor was stay at home, but in summers she and her oldest daughters ran a camp for all the children. Then her husband had a bike accident, brain trauma and she went to graduate school to become a teacher, and then started teaching. So, even traditional wives which are not really traditional at all, are not guaranteed a life where there are absolutely no problems and things just go smoothly like in Leave It To Beaver. Women all over the world work. However, I am in a European country that also promotes that idea of the stay at home mom. What it is, is that there has not been enough child care and women got 3 years off from work paid in part for each child. Still, it is hard to afford children in the US unless you are very wealthy with only one income. Women that I know still do most of the home stuff, child care and work. That is something that the Republicans do not address. We are all wondering whether JD Vance's wife, that he met in Law School at Yale, works or stays home? We know he has held his mother-in-law up as being a role model because she took a sabbatical for from her job as a professor, to come and help them raise their children. It sounds like that is something their family could afford, but many cannot. Again and again, the Republican party acts like you are a sinner if you are poor. It is so un Christian of them.
I made the point about Bezos in an earlier newsletter. I'm sure he put the funds in an overseas tax shelter or some such, but he didn't have to publicly report what he did with the proceeds.
This attack on women working outside the home is highly coordinated. It is designed to do away with all advancements women have gained in the past 150 years and will return women and children to being a man's property. That is the goal. Then if the man says it's ok for his property to work in some capacity and put the proceeds in his bank account (because property won't have her own bank account), that would be allowed. It isn't that they don't want women to work; they don't want women to have independence or choices or the ability to leave.
Usha Vance worked as a high-powered lawyer until JD became the VP nominee. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/trump-vp-wife-usha-vance-leaves-sf-law-firm-19575551.php
The Christian Nationalist Republican Party very much believes poverty is a result of a person's sin. Here's an example of that thinking, in case you want to add it to your discussion: https://project2025istheocracy.substack.com/p/what-does-sin-is-the-root-cause-of?utm_source=publication-search
Andra, I am older than you and I remembered when my aunt got divorced in the 70s, and had worked her entire life along with her husband and purchased a house together with him, my mom told me she had no credit from that. It all went to him. No credit cards, etc... She of course got sole custody of my cousin, and instead of demanding alimony, she asked for the house, which they had paid off. She then went on to earn, although he also gave child support. A neighbor of hers worked all her life, and supported her husband through graduate school. Then, when he was teaching, he fell in love with a colleague and they got married. She got the house, no alimony, and full custody of their son. Of course back then, dads would choose to spend time with their sons, but it was not like it is now, where 50-50. custody arrangements are more common. So, it seems like we are going back to the middle of the last century in some things, and the middle ages in others. Usha Vance should be weighing how good her example is going to be for her daughter, or daughters if she has more. Wow! A Chinese friend of mine wanted her daughter to go to Yale to marry a Yalie. That is when our daughter's were 5, that was the plan. I had my own thoughts about that. Anyway, her daughter did not get into Harvard or Yale, but is at a good University, and is in pre-med, planning her own career, and not thinking about whether it will lead to a husband from Yale or her University. She is 19. I am glad. Still, my friend's daughter who moved to Portugal, with her husband who is from India, says that her husband's mom and grandmother will come to live with them when she has the baby to help out. I say lucky her, because I know she is going to have some great Indian cooking, although I found some good Indian restaurants in Lisbon too. Still, I knew that this was tradition. It is probably hard to follow this tradition unless you have money. It is a double whammy that people in CN churches are taught to blame the poor and others who are vulnerable and struggling for their own problems. People must really spend a lot of time hiding this stuff from each other in such churches.
One does spend a lot of time hiding things in Christian Nationalist environments, as any normal trial of life can be construed as God's judgment. It took me ages and ages to undo this part of my programming, to realize that bad things happen in life and have nothing to do with God punishing me for choices I made or failed to make. This really came to a head when I was at my lowest point. (I have an incurable parasitic disease that has caused partial blindness in one eye but it attacks all organs. I'm lucky it chose an eye and not my heart or my lungs or my brain, which are fatal. This is the biggest reason I live the way I do, because every time I blink, I see that I could drop dead at any moment. It is in remission now, but treatments for parasitic diseases are brutal. The mental and physical side effects led me to this lowest point.) Anyway, I made the mistake of reaching out to my Christian Nationalist parents for empathy during this lowest point. It took them telling me this disease is God judging me for my sinful choices for me to finally tackle that part of my programming. Because I would never EVER want to make another person feel like that made me feel at their lowest moment. (I often say undoing this indoctrination is life-long work. This is an example. The programming sits there until something triggers it, and I find another cache to undo and reprogram.) Why would anyone in these churches mention personal struggles if this is what they get in response? So yes, they are hotbeds of broken people who cannot do self-reflection or analysis but are hiding all kinds of things from everyone else.
Such a loss of relationship for you and for them. I am so sorry and glad you moved beyond their words to your own truth.