I recall state blue laws when I was young that restricted activities and purchases on Sunday. These were somehow tied to what it was proper/not proper to do on the sabbath. I grew up knowing there were no liquor sales on Sundays or holidays. Some states/communities restricted gambling, sports, work or traveling. I first ran up against the blue laws in Ohio when I attempted to purchase pantyhose at the drugstore on a Sunday and was informed that it was illegal to do so (circa 1965).
We had blue laws in my very Christian Nationalist county into the 80s. I remember restaurants and grocery stores being open, but nobody could sell alcohol. Many Americans probably don't realize how recent some of this stuff is.
Sunday was the busiest day of the week in my Baptist upbringing. Get dressed up, Sunday school, worship service, prepare biggest meal of the week, entertain other church people, huge cleanup of meal, evening church and any other special church activities. I never understood why it was called a day of rest. It seemed to me we had lost the plot even as a kid.
Just like the whole set up- it wasn’t about getting in touch with our souls or pondering who/what God is or the joy of being in service to the poor and widows and strangers in our community. It was about being seen and doing the right church things. No wonder churches struggle with attendance and therefore resort to Las Vegas style entertainment events. It’s all so silly but deadly serious since people with real power want to run our lives according to their interpretation of a religious text.
Thanks for your hard work Andra. It’s hard to remember back to our trauma filled religious experiences but people are still living in it and causing the rest of us major problems so we have to examine it.
Yeah, I said somewhere else here that I worked harder on Sunday than any other day of the week. Or a version of that. :) We always had Sunday lunch, and I had to clean up the kitchen so Mom could rest for an hour or so before choir practice.
I am honestly curious as to how the Sabbath being a day for rest evolved into a day for worship. Worship is the opposite of rest, as it carries the expectation that one must dress up "in one's Sunday best", travel to their place of worship, and be physically and mentally engaged in worship rituals.
Hmmm. I bet I can find some history on that, Tony. Because you’re right. The Sunday I described was a typical Sunday in my teens. It was usually the busiest day of my week. We often had youth activities after Sunday evening services, too. Like a meal together or whatnot. In the lead up to Christmas and Easter it was even worse with cantadas and seasonal music prep.
I loved playing piano and was good enough to be in near-constant demand. Of course, I was expected to play for anyone who asked as service to God. I burned out on my love of piano in my late teens, and it was because of the constant expectation that I play for everyone. I took lessons again as an adult, but it reminded me of those harried times when I felt like I was being used and could never say no to anyone.
I can't find a clear answer, but here's a long seminary article that credits Jesus' resurrection with "Sunday rejoicing" or church attendance. Several articles mentioned Constantine, but that's more in relation to the move from Saturday-to-Sunday Sabbath observance.
That last passage from P2025 is particularly ridiculous. Cutting off the labor supply with regulations doesn't lead to growth elsewhere and they know it. It just shows the lengths they'll go to to justify anything from the bible, even and especially when it contradicts everything else they say and believe. Based on the teaser for tomorrow it looks like it's meaningless anyway. The great unanswered question in Republican politics is when on the rare occasions that Christian Nationalists and anarchist billionaires come into conflict, who wins. Let's not elect them to find out though.
There’s a clear contradiction in their policy recommendations. I’m going to imagine how they will solve it.
But this section is the perfect example of how Christian Nationalists think. Everything is about faith/the Bible/church/rules/denying urges/eternity. They believe our country would be a better place if everyone were forced to live by their dogma. They don’t care that people don’t want to attend their churches. They will use government regulation to cut off every conceivable means of avoidance and force people to go.
Christian Nationalists in and outside government cannot force people to attend Christian churches on Sunday, given it is a First Amendment violation to attend a church or not attend a church of one's choosing.
Yes, I learned this from the unfortunate years I lived in SC. Glad to have escaped the South relatively unscathed, but I would never willingly return. When you grow up outside of Southern Baptist culture and then get immersed in it, it feels very much like a cult of misogyny and xenophobia. There’s no guidebook to acclimate the outsider to the subculture of the South…
I’m counting the days until I escape it myself. And once I’m out, I won’t willingly return to a red state. I’m glad you got out. It is exactly as you describe it, though I’ve been in places with even stranger vibes than anywhere in SC. All in the American south.
You will be able to breathe freely again when you do-you’ll realize you have gotten to know and trust your neighbors over time and life just feels easier with more freedom to be yourself. The tension we store in our bodies slowly drains away when you live in a culture that is respectful towards others and our differences. The judgment gets left in the South with its so-called hospitality.
Growing up in St. Louis I remember no beer or liquor being sold. There were ropes and sometimes tarps covering the offending area. I believe department stores were closed, but there were Cardinal baseball games and football games. $1 bleacher seats.
Back in the mid-90s when the Carolina Panthers became an NFL team their stadium in Charlotte, NC was still being constructed, so their first year was played at Clemson University's stadium. Clemson is in Pickens County, SC which had strict blue laws at the time...no beer, wine or liquor on Sunday. Of course, they came up with a way to change the laws to allow alcohol sales at the Church of the Holy Pigskin on Sunday...when the Panthers decamped to their home in Charlotte, Pickens County wen back to dry Sundays.
I have relatives that grew up in New Jersey decades ago, and they told me they had blue laws then. I am surprised, given New Jersey is a Democrat state. This relative informed me that it basically meant stores were closed, but you could go to the park or do anything else you would like, such as seeing the New York Yankees. Does my analysis align your experience when you grew up?
Blue laws were pretty common into the 1970s and 80s, depending on where an American lived. We own property in another state, and until a few years ago, no alcohol sales were allowed in the entire county, any day of the week. It was hilarious, because there were all these booze palaces beyond the county border, and we could go there to stock up, but we couldn't even buy beer at the country grocery store.
That is bizarre an adult 21+ could not buy alcohol in states with blue laws. I thought alcohol was legal for 21+ adults in all 50 states. Is there any other bizarre, daily product, food, or drink that is prohibited under blue laws (e.g., bananas)?
Rather surprised that they acknowledge "sincere religious beliefs" that involve a Sabbath day other than Sunday. I guess you can't claim "Judeo-Christian" if you don't acknowledge the Judeo part?
Because many Jewish readers support this work, I have the privilege of learning more about their faith and experience. I've never liked using this term in my writing, so I've avoided it except when it is used in the P2025 text. Growing up in Christian Nationalism, I heard it all my life, but it was associated with America's founding. So thanks to Jewish readers, I have learned more about the origins of words like Judeo-Christian. It's a term we absolutely should not be using anywhere.
I’ve never used the term “Judeo-Christian” as I didn’t understand its meaning.Interesting the origins are related to the conversion to Christianity.
Just recently I’ve learned more about the Jewish faith, especially the respect for women and their reproductive freedom.Women of Reform Judaism has actually partnered in Fl with the group behind Amend 4/reproductive freedom for a postcarding/phonebanking campaign.
It’s so interesting to me (and not at all surprising — see my newsletter on Russ Vought) that sincerely held religious beliefs only matter when they are Christian Nationalist. Plenty of Christians believe in a woman’s bodily autonomy, as does the Jewish faith and some Muslims. But when they try to point to it as justification for reproductive freedom, they are slapped down almost every time.
Thank you for alerting me to this. I basically grew up agnostic (or a heathen as my mom would joke since she came from a long line of ministers but was the family black sheep). Few religious terms are familiar to me in context so I’m always learning.
I assume Pastors of said churches would also be paid time and a half as they have to work on Sunday?
Yes, I remember when most shops were closed on a Sunday. It didn’t make us go to church as a family. I do attend church now but because I want to, not because I am forced to. It makes a mockery of faith if people are attending because a) they have nothing else to do or b) want to be seen doing the “right” thing. Thank you for your work Andra.
In the US, nobody knows what church workers and their pastors are paid, because churches have a special non-profit status. They don’t have to file 990 returns with the government.
I agree. People should not be forced into religious indoctrination anywhere.
That makes sense, Andra. In the Anglican Churches in England, vicars get paid a “stipend” and get a house to live in and the church itself is a charity. We do have to ensure good stewardship of the money we receive - yes, The Church of England is rich, but individual churches are poor - and regularly have fundraisers to fix the roof or whatever.
I am open about my faith, but I don’t judge people of different beliefs or none. My faith journey has been very personal and it is not my place to bash people over the head with a Bible, which is what Christian Nationalists seem to want to do. I wouldn’t want any part of it. Can’t we just let people be who they want to be? Scary times.
I've spent chunks of time in the UK (primarily in Northern Wales), but not enough to know if you have megachurches. I haven't seen the evangelical, dominionist bent there like in the US. I can't imagine "pastors as personalities" appealing to English people, at least not the many I know. (Growing up, my next-door neighbor was English, so I'm probably a worse Anglophile than normal because of her. :) ) I also haven't noticed this coercive strategy toward faith and worship when I've been there.
Thank you for this! The ultimate goal of Project 2025 is social and mind control - ordaining a socially dominant "cult" of White Christian Nationalism to rule over the rest of us and "shepherd" us into the "true belief", while punishing non believers - or so it seems to me. I wrote about Project 2025 here -
2024's consequential election season looms. Psychiatrist Ravi Chandra takes a look at the Far-Right playbook and the choice between autocratic and egalitarian-in-progress choices, with a focus on psychology, propaganda, and dangerous influences that are amplifying chances of violence.
MOSF 18.12: Election Season 2024: Deconstructing the Trump/Far-Right Playbook and Propaganda, and Constructing a Positive Response From Our Shared Humanity and Reality – East Wind ezine (December 1, 2023)
I recall state blue laws when I was young that restricted activities and purchases on Sunday. These were somehow tied to what it was proper/not proper to do on the sabbath. I grew up knowing there were no liquor sales on Sundays or holidays. Some states/communities restricted gambling, sports, work or traveling. I first ran up against the blue laws in Ohio when I attempted to purchase pantyhose at the drugstore on a Sunday and was informed that it was illegal to do so (circa 1965).
We had blue laws in my very Christian Nationalist county into the 80s. I remember restaurants and grocery stores being open, but nobody could sell alcohol. Many Americans probably don't realize how recent some of this stuff is.
In Ohio, venues still have to have a special Sunday liquor license, even today.
That may be the case in some parts of SC as well. Not surprising.
Sunday was the busiest day of the week in my Baptist upbringing. Get dressed up, Sunday school, worship service, prepare biggest meal of the week, entertain other church people, huge cleanup of meal, evening church and any other special church activities. I never understood why it was called a day of rest. It seemed to me we had lost the plot even as a kid.
Just like the whole set up- it wasn’t about getting in touch with our souls or pondering who/what God is or the joy of being in service to the poor and widows and strangers in our community. It was about being seen and doing the right church things. No wonder churches struggle with attendance and therefore resort to Las Vegas style entertainment events. It’s all so silly but deadly serious since people with real power want to run our lives according to their interpretation of a religious text.
Thanks for your hard work Andra. It’s hard to remember back to our trauma filled religious experiences but people are still living in it and causing the rest of us major problems so we have to examine it.
Yeah, I said somewhere else here that I worked harder on Sunday than any other day of the week. Or a version of that. :) We always had Sunday lunch, and I had to clean up the kitchen so Mom could rest for an hour or so before choir practice.
I am honestly curious as to how the Sabbath being a day for rest evolved into a day for worship. Worship is the opposite of rest, as it carries the expectation that one must dress up "in one's Sunday best", travel to their place of worship, and be physically and mentally engaged in worship rituals.
Hmmm. I bet I can find some history on that, Tony. Because you’re right. The Sunday I described was a typical Sunday in my teens. It was usually the busiest day of my week. We often had youth activities after Sunday evening services, too. Like a meal together or whatnot. In the lead up to Christmas and Easter it was even worse with cantadas and seasonal music prep.
I loved playing piano and was good enough to be in near-constant demand. Of course, I was expected to play for anyone who asked as service to God. I burned out on my love of piano in my late teens, and it was because of the constant expectation that I play for everyone. I took lessons again as an adult, but it reminded me of those harried times when I felt like I was being used and could never say no to anyone.
I can't find a clear answer, but here's a long seminary article that credits Jesus' resurrection with "Sunday rejoicing" or church attendance. Several articles mentioned Constantine, but that's more in relation to the move from Saturday-to-Sunday Sabbath observance.
https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3346&context=auss
That last passage from P2025 is particularly ridiculous. Cutting off the labor supply with regulations doesn't lead to growth elsewhere and they know it. It just shows the lengths they'll go to to justify anything from the bible, even and especially when it contradicts everything else they say and believe. Based on the teaser for tomorrow it looks like it's meaningless anyway. The great unanswered question in Republican politics is when on the rare occasions that Christian Nationalists and anarchist billionaires come into conflict, who wins. Let's not elect them to find out though.
There’s a clear contradiction in their policy recommendations. I’m going to imagine how they will solve it.
But this section is the perfect example of how Christian Nationalists think. Everything is about faith/the Bible/church/rules/denying urges/eternity. They believe our country would be a better place if everyone were forced to live by their dogma. They don’t care that people don’t want to attend their churches. They will use government regulation to cut off every conceivable means of avoidance and force people to go.
Christian Nationalists in and outside government cannot force people to attend Christian churches on Sunday, given it is a First Amendment violation to attend a church or not attend a church of one's choosing.
Ha, funny & clever! I bet they’d pay fewer taxes if their disciples worshipped the holy church of Sunday football… 😂
“Maybe they will get their teams classified as “churches” to get around this conundrum.”
And football really is a religion in the American south. :)
Yes, I learned this from the unfortunate years I lived in SC. Glad to have escaped the South relatively unscathed, but I would never willingly return. When you grow up outside of Southern Baptist culture and then get immersed in it, it feels very much like a cult of misogyny and xenophobia. There’s no guidebook to acclimate the outsider to the subculture of the South…
I’m counting the days until I escape it myself. And once I’m out, I won’t willingly return to a red state. I’m glad you got out. It is exactly as you describe it, though I’ve been in places with even stranger vibes than anywhere in SC. All in the American south.
You will be able to breathe freely again when you do-you’ll realize you have gotten to know and trust your neighbors over time and life just feels easier with more freedom to be yourself. The tension we store in our bodies slowly drains away when you live in a culture that is respectful towards others and our differences. The judgment gets left in the South with its so-called hospitality.
I live in Spain part-time, so I basically feel like I’m suffocating when I have to be in SC.
Those are not my kind of Catholics. I look forward to the future, they want to drag us back to feudalism.
Yes. I’ve compared this to feudalism several times. They want to make us serfs.
Growing up in St. Louis I remember no beer or liquor being sold. There were ropes and sometimes tarps covering the offending area. I believe department stores were closed, but there were Cardinal baseball games and football games. $1 bleacher seats.
Because the Church of Sports will always be fine with these people. Sigh.
Back in the mid-90s when the Carolina Panthers became an NFL team their stadium in Charlotte, NC was still being constructed, so their first year was played at Clemson University's stadium. Clemson is in Pickens County, SC which had strict blue laws at the time...no beer, wine or liquor on Sunday. Of course, they came up with a way to change the laws to allow alcohol sales at the Church of the Holy Pigskin on Sunday...when the Panthers decamped to their home in Charlotte, Pickens County wen back to dry Sundays.
I guess the legal citation is John 2:1-11 (KJV)
I have relatives that grew up in New Jersey decades ago, and they told me they had blue laws then. I am surprised, given New Jersey is a Democrat state. This relative informed me that it basically meant stores were closed, but you could go to the park or do anything else you would like, such as seeing the New York Yankees. Does my analysis align your experience when you grew up?
Blue laws were pretty common into the 1970s and 80s, depending on where an American lived. We own property in another state, and until a few years ago, no alcohol sales were allowed in the entire county, any day of the week. It was hilarious, because there were all these booze palaces beyond the county border, and we could go there to stock up, but we couldn't even buy beer at the country grocery store.
That is bizarre an adult 21+ could not buy alcohol in states with blue laws. I thought alcohol was legal for 21+ adults in all 50 states. Is there any other bizarre, daily product, food, or drink that is prohibited under blue laws (e.g., bananas)?
Rather surprised that they acknowledge "sincere religious beliefs" that involve a Sabbath day other than Sunday. I guess you can't claim "Judeo-Christian" if you don't acknowledge the Judeo part?
I don't like the term "Judeo-Christian." To me, it is another code word for Christian Nationalism. Here's a really good article that explains how it is antisemitic and anti-Muslim: https://www.heyalma.com/the-myth-of-judeo-christianity-explained/
Because many Jewish readers support this work, I have the privilege of learning more about their faith and experience. I've never liked using this term in my writing, so I've avoided it except when it is used in the P2025 text. Growing up in Christian Nationalism, I heard it all my life, but it was associated with America's founding. So thanks to Jewish readers, I have learned more about the origins of words like Judeo-Christian. It's a term we absolutely should not be using anywhere.
I’ve never used the term “Judeo-Christian” as I didn’t understand its meaning.Interesting the origins are related to the conversion to Christianity.
Just recently I’ve learned more about the Jewish faith, especially the respect for women and their reproductive freedom.Women of Reform Judaism has actually partnered in Fl with the group behind Amend 4/reproductive freedom for a postcarding/phonebanking campaign.
It’s so interesting to me (and not at all surprising — see my newsletter on Russ Vought) that sincerely held religious beliefs only matter when they are Christian Nationalist. Plenty of Christians believe in a woman’s bodily autonomy, as does the Jewish faith and some Muslims. But when they try to point to it as justification for reproductive freedom, they are slapped down almost every time.
Thank you for alerting me to this. I basically grew up agnostic (or a heathen as my mom would joke since she came from a long line of ministers but was the family black sheep). Few religious terms are familiar to me in context so I’m always learning.
Helping more Americans understand what this stuff means when they see it is what I'm here for. :) Kudos to your mom for being the black sheep.
I assume Pastors of said churches would also be paid time and a half as they have to work on Sunday?
Yes, I remember when most shops were closed on a Sunday. It didn’t make us go to church as a family. I do attend church now but because I want to, not because I am forced to. It makes a mockery of faith if people are attending because a) they have nothing else to do or b) want to be seen doing the “right” thing. Thank you for your work Andra.
In the US, nobody knows what church workers and their pastors are paid, because churches have a special non-profit status. They don’t have to file 990 returns with the government.
I agree. People should not be forced into religious indoctrination anywhere.
That makes sense, Andra. In the Anglican Churches in England, vicars get paid a “stipend” and get a house to live in and the church itself is a charity. We do have to ensure good stewardship of the money we receive - yes, The Church of England is rich, but individual churches are poor - and regularly have fundraisers to fix the roof or whatever.
I am open about my faith, but I don’t judge people of different beliefs or none. My faith journey has been very personal and it is not my place to bash people over the head with a Bible, which is what Christian Nationalists seem to want to do. I wouldn’t want any part of it. Can’t we just let people be who they want to be? Scary times.
I've spent chunks of time in the UK (primarily in Northern Wales), but not enough to know if you have megachurches. I haven't seen the evangelical, dominionist bent there like in the US. I can't imagine "pastors as personalities" appealing to English people, at least not the many I know. (Growing up, my next-door neighbor was English, so I'm probably a worse Anglophile than normal because of her. :) ) I also haven't noticed this coercive strategy toward faith and worship when I've been there.
Thank you for this! The ultimate goal of Project 2025 is social and mind control - ordaining a socially dominant "cult" of White Christian Nationalism to rule over the rest of us and "shepherd" us into the "true belief", while punishing non believers - or so it seems to me. I wrote about Project 2025 here -
2024's consequential election season looms. Psychiatrist Ravi Chandra takes a look at the Far-Right playbook and the choice between autocratic and egalitarian-in-progress choices, with a focus on psychology, propaganda, and dangerous influences that are amplifying chances of violence.
MOSF 18.12: Election Season 2024: Deconstructing the Trump/Far-Right Playbook and Propaganda, and Constructing a Positive Response From Our Shared Humanity and Reality – East Wind ezine (December 1, 2023)
https://eastwindezine.com/mosf-18-12-election-season-2024-deconstructing-the-trump-far-right-playbook-and-propaganda/
Thanks for sharing this work, Ravi. I always enjoy reading about this from a psychological perspective.
Thanks for your reply Andra! And I so appreciate your work which is so culturally informative