Yes, Christian Nationalists love to fetishize suffering. That's their thing. They excel at victim blaming, guilt and shame.
However, my personal experience has been that churches typically don't like to assist their communities - not in a real or substantive way. It's a burden and an inconvenience for the church.
Definitely any assistance the church provides comes with strings attached. The push is to direct them over to government services in the long term.
I would welcome more churches filling in the gaps of government social programs - with no conditions.
In my experiences with churches (either as a member or knowing someone who worked there), they don't like to help people because they believe sin caused their problems. By helping, they continue to encourage that sin (in their view.) Which is why their help comes with so many strings and is revoked for a single infraction.
Project 2025 aims to take taxpayer funds and force people into religious programs for help. By using public money and the force of government, they think they will be able to coerce more people to the One True God. (Right now, many of these groups cannot inflict real punishment when people don't follow the rules; they simply kick them out.)
Yep. But Christian Nationalists don't really worship Jesus. They claim salvation through his sacrifice, but they don't point to his example much. At least, not in my experience.
Andra, doesn't it go further than just figuring all misfortune is due to individual's sin, but that no human should get between said sinner and God's wrath towards that sinner? Not only does it make it easy for the church (they do nothing concrete to help the sinner) but they can revel in the result, for instance a pregnant woman with a partial miscarriage bleeding out helplessly in a hospital parking lot. Since she is obviously a sinner (she had s*x!) then God is obviously punishing her for enjoying the act or something. As I've said before, this opens the door for mandating a form of Christian Science on most Americans since all health care can be seen as subverting God's will, unless you're really rich, merging Prosperity Gospel tenets with all this.
You're correct, Marc. It's both. They don't help because 1. sin caused them to be in that predicament; 2. God's wrath comes from their choice to sin; and 3. suffering and even death are the consequences of their choices.
Coming from a Catholic family. Martyrdom and suffering is holy and rewarded. As a young child a pushed back. As a teenager I asked…told my parents what kinda choice is that? Accept Jesus as savior or don’t and go to hell. That’s not a choice it’s coercion. It’s like being asked to become a member of the mafia if you say no then you or a family member will be killed eventually.
So my question is if I choose not to repent then why does the CN care? Are they making themselves feel better and by following their proselytizing beliefs?
In the evangelical Christian Nationalist world where I grew up, people didn't know how to talk about much beyond church things. Church was the epicenter of everyone's life; therefore, one couldn't go long without bringing faith matters up in casual conversation. They care because they crossed your path, and they think they are commanded to share the gospel with everyone who crosses their path. They are taught God brings people into their paths SPECIFICALLY to share the gospel with them. And they are told if they fail to do this, they will have to give an accounting of these failures to witness at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
So they care because they've been indoctrinated to believe they will be publicly humiliated in eternity for those they didn't witness to in life, people who ultimately were condemned to hell. They are told to witness to people multiple times; that their rejection and discomfort is just Satan working on them; that they must keep praying for these sinners and keep trying. They are told to ignore boundaries because eternity is too important to worry about the other person's feelings.
That's the version of evangelical Christian Nationalism I grew up in.
Dominionism came along and turned that on its head. Because those CNs believe Jesus will not return until the world is converted. Every person who refuses to accept Jesus is deliberately causing Jesus not to return and keeping dominionist CNs trapped in a sinful, perverted earth. They have fully embraced coercing everyone to their One True God.
So in both cases they care about your soul because of the potential consequences to them in their version of eternity. They don't really care about YOU; they care about themselves, either getting stars in their crowns for converting you and getting bigger mansions and similar, OR being rewarded by Jesus when he returns and creates a new earth.
I hope this makes as much sense as it can make, given the topic.
Thanks for the feedback. It helps me better serve everyone. I know this stuff, and because I know it, I sometimes assume others do, too. I lived in it for so long, and it was so normal to me. I'll put it up in greater detail tomorrow. I was going to write about space (because I'm such a space geek and never get to talk about it; P2025 has plans for NASA), but that can wait until next week.
Heck, I love Space also! I'll await the Space article eagerly. But making clear why the P2025 authors are so urgent to do all this is important, so thanks for taking my advice.
Just curious: anything in P2025 hiding NASA for ignoring the biblical Firmament where all the Noah's Flood waters are stored, or perhaps a nod to Flat Eartherism?
I need to go back and read that section again, but I don't remember anything like that about Noah or flat earth. The framers don't say, "The moon landing is a hoax," for example.
Writing about science is always a bit intimidating for me. I mean, the "science" I learned growing up was Creation. Everything had that bent, even subjects like chemistry and especially biology. So whatever science I know today, I taught myself as an adult. I became enthralled with NASA during the Cassini mission to Saturn, but I'll write more about that in the newsletter. (Seriously, I'm such a geek about it that when I met my friend Tina, I almost did a Wayne's World "I'm not worthy" because she worked with the ESA on the Huygens probe that went with Cassini and explored Titan.)
Great! And by the way, I finally got around to checking the Wikipedia P2025 page and found the publicly acknowledged budget for it is $22 Million! Who would spend that if they didn't think doing so was urgent? Or that their main client (Trump) wouldn't even acknowledge his interest in the work publically unless he was lying?
Just in case you missed it, here's a NASA story for you, with the intro I wrote for it when I shared it with my close circle:
My boss, when I was a Federal civilian engineer with the Navy, was a 2 star Admiral who said at an "all hands meeting": "I know all of you have had to make sweaty palm decisions." He was right. Those decisions which, if wrong, could kill people weren't fun. Still, it goes to show how important - and fascinating - federal engineering is.
Here's an example of a "sweaty palm" engineering situation from NASA, which we considered brethren for the audaciousness of their missions. Their solution here is not risk free, but definitely ingenious. Bravo!
Yes, the government is doing God's work. But that's ok. I think God probably wants each and every one of us, individually or through our places of business, to do his work and help each other. And the government doing God's work does not detract from the work the church can do. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive in doing God's work.
Religion has historically been responsible for some of the bloodiest awfulness in human history. Faith and belief are not religion. Religion is how some people weaponize those things to control people for money and power.
Irony is completely dead to them… the whole entire point of Christ’s teachings/true Christianity is about mercy, grace, and forgiveness - a way out of punishment and oppression from Old Testament laws! There is nothing of Christ in them.
We talk about this a lot, Susann. It's especially hard and offensive for Christians who are not Christian Nationalists, because it feels like a highjacking of the Christian faith.
I think this fact has been what’s hurt me the most, left me in disbelief, caused the loss of friends, and forced me to leave 2 churches. I know there are a few churches, now considered “progressive”, to be able to find community in, but it’s hard.
I saw what was coming in 2016 - why I still find all this shocking is beyond me!
I think it’s hard for anyone who’s read the Bible and understands the red words to comprehend the Christian Nationalist movement. You’re not alone. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt by this. Solidarity to you, because I know how lonely it can feel at times.
Everyday it becomes clearer to me what the Christian Nationalist mindset is and it’s frightening. Thank you for your courage and firsthand knowledge to share this with us.
Yes, Christian Nationalists love to fetishize suffering. That's their thing. They excel at victim blaming, guilt and shame.
However, my personal experience has been that churches typically don't like to assist their communities - not in a real or substantive way. It's a burden and an inconvenience for the church.
Definitely any assistance the church provides comes with strings attached. The push is to direct them over to government services in the long term.
I would welcome more churches filling in the gaps of government social programs - with no conditions.
In my experiences with churches (either as a member or knowing someone who worked there), they don't like to help people because they believe sin caused their problems. By helping, they continue to encourage that sin (in their view.) Which is why their help comes with so many strings and is revoked for a single infraction.
Project 2025 aims to take taxpayer funds and force people into religious programs for help. By using public money and the force of government, they think they will be able to coerce more people to the One True God. (Right now, many of these groups cannot inflict real punishment when people don't follow the rules; they simply kick them out.)
Which, of course, is antithetical to what Jesus taught. 😑
Yep. But Christian Nationalists don't really worship Jesus. They claim salvation through his sacrifice, but they don't point to his example much. At least, not in my experience.
Mine, neither.
Andra, doesn't it go further than just figuring all misfortune is due to individual's sin, but that no human should get between said sinner and God's wrath towards that sinner? Not only does it make it easy for the church (they do nothing concrete to help the sinner) but they can revel in the result, for instance a pregnant woman with a partial miscarriage bleeding out helplessly in a hospital parking lot. Since she is obviously a sinner (she had s*x!) then God is obviously punishing her for enjoying the act or something. As I've said before, this opens the door for mandating a form of Christian Science on most Americans since all health care can be seen as subverting God's will, unless you're really rich, merging Prosperity Gospel tenets with all this.
You're correct, Marc. It's both. They don't help because 1. sin caused them to be in that predicament; 2. God's wrath comes from their choice to sin; and 3. suffering and even death are the consequences of their choices.
The christo-fascist are fucking nuts. Brainwashed. That doesn't solve what we're talking about here, I'm simply making a statement.
Many of them are indoctrinated radicalized extremists who have been given numerous off-ramps to exit this world and chose not to.
Coming from a Catholic family. Martyrdom and suffering is holy and rewarded. As a young child a pushed back. As a teenager I asked…told my parents what kinda choice is that? Accept Jesus as savior or don’t and go to hell. That’s not a choice it’s coercion. It’s like being asked to become a member of the mafia if you say no then you or a family member will be killed eventually.
So my question is if I choose not to repent then why does the CN care? Are they making themselves feel better and by following their proselytizing beliefs?
If I go to hell that’s my choice 😈
In the evangelical Christian Nationalist world where I grew up, people didn't know how to talk about much beyond church things. Church was the epicenter of everyone's life; therefore, one couldn't go long without bringing faith matters up in casual conversation. They care because they crossed your path, and they think they are commanded to share the gospel with everyone who crosses their path. They are taught God brings people into their paths SPECIFICALLY to share the gospel with them. And they are told if they fail to do this, they will have to give an accounting of these failures to witness at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
So they care because they've been indoctrinated to believe they will be publicly humiliated in eternity for those they didn't witness to in life, people who ultimately were condemned to hell. They are told to witness to people multiple times; that their rejection and discomfort is just Satan working on them; that they must keep praying for these sinners and keep trying. They are told to ignore boundaries because eternity is too important to worry about the other person's feelings.
That's the version of evangelical Christian Nationalism I grew up in.
Dominionism came along and turned that on its head. Because those CNs believe Jesus will not return until the world is converted. Every person who refuses to accept Jesus is deliberately causing Jesus not to return and keeping dominionist CNs trapped in a sinful, perverted earth. They have fully embraced coercing everyone to their One True God.
So in both cases they care about your soul because of the potential consequences to them in their version of eternity. They don't really care about YOU; they care about themselves, either getting stars in their crowns for converting you and getting bigger mansions and similar, OR being rewarded by Jesus when he returns and creates a new earth.
I hope this makes as much sense as it can make, given the topic.
Thanks Andra. I knew you would be able to answer that question 😊. I thought it was something like that. Appreciate you ♥️
I appreciate you, too.
This needs to be one of your Daily posts, Andra. It explains so much of WHY P2025 evangelizing is so important to them.
Thanks for the feedback. It helps me better serve everyone. I know this stuff, and because I know it, I sometimes assume others do, too. I lived in it for so long, and it was so normal to me. I'll put it up in greater detail tomorrow. I was going to write about space (because I'm such a space geek and never get to talk about it; P2025 has plans for NASA), but that can wait until next week.
Heck, I love Space also! I'll await the Space article eagerly. But making clear why the P2025 authors are so urgent to do all this is important, so thanks for taking my advice.
Just curious: anything in P2025 hiding NASA for ignoring the biblical Firmament where all the Noah's Flood waters are stored, or perhaps a nod to Flat Eartherism?
I need to go back and read that section again, but I don't remember anything like that about Noah or flat earth. The framers don't say, "The moon landing is a hoax," for example.
Writing about science is always a bit intimidating for me. I mean, the "science" I learned growing up was Creation. Everything had that bent, even subjects like chemistry and especially biology. So whatever science I know today, I taught myself as an adult. I became enthralled with NASA during the Cassini mission to Saturn, but I'll write more about that in the newsletter. (Seriously, I'm such a geek about it that when I met my friend Tina, I almost did a Wayne's World "I'm not worthy" because she worked with the ESA on the Huygens probe that went with Cassini and explored Titan.)
Great! And by the way, I finally got around to checking the Wikipedia P2025 page and found the publicly acknowledged budget for it is $22 Million! Who would spend that if they didn't think doing so was urgent? Or that their main client (Trump) wouldn't even acknowledge his interest in the work publically unless he was lying?
Just in case you missed it, here's a NASA story for you, with the intro I wrote for it when I shared it with my close circle:
My boss, when I was a Federal civilian engineer with the Navy, was a 2 star Admiral who said at an "all hands meeting": "I know all of you have had to make sweaty palm decisions." He was right. Those decisions which, if wrong, could kill people weren't fun. Still, it goes to show how important - and fascinating - federal engineering is.
Here's an example of a "sweaty palm" engineering situation from NASA, which we considered brethren for the audaciousness of their missions. Their solution here is not risk free, but definitely ingenious. Bravo!
https://futurism.com/nasa-disastrous-flaw-spacecraft
They keep changing the rules and the application to exert more control.
And they will keep doing that. Which is what so many of their supporters don't realize. It's only a matter of time before this turns on many of them.
Leopards Eating People's Faces Party/church.
Yes, the government is doing God's work. But that's ok. I think God probably wants each and every one of us, individually or through our places of business, to do his work and help each other. And the government doing God's work does not detract from the work the church can do. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive in doing God's work.
We should all help others however we can. That's true.
"Religion poisons everything" ~ Christopher Hitchens.
More jesus, more bibles, more god will NOT solve issues for vast majority of people or patients.
The US has between 1.8 million - 2 million people in prison & jails. Polling shows approx 70% identity as christains.
So, that's roughly 1.4 million inmates that committed crimes even though they claim jesus as their savior.
Religion, bible, god, jesus are NOT inoculations!
Religion has historically been responsible for some of the bloodiest awfulness in human history. Faith and belief are not religion. Religion is how some people weaponize those things to control people for money and power.
Exactly - Europe is full of blood
Justin Kanew from Tennessee Holler is fabulous. It's a reader supported outlet. I encourage TN residents (or anyone) to monetarily contribute.
We have quite a few TN folks following this work now. I hope they all support TN Holler.
Irony is completely dead to them… the whole entire point of Christ’s teachings/true Christianity is about mercy, grace, and forgiveness - a way out of punishment and oppression from Old Testament laws! There is nothing of Christ in them.
We talk about this a lot, Susann. It's especially hard and offensive for Christians who are not Christian Nationalists, because it feels like a highjacking of the Christian faith.
I think this fact has been what’s hurt me the most, left me in disbelief, caused the loss of friends, and forced me to leave 2 churches. I know there are a few churches, now considered “progressive”, to be able to find community in, but it’s hard.
I saw what was coming in 2016 - why I still find all this shocking is beyond me!
I think it’s hard for anyone who’s read the Bible and understands the red words to comprehend the Christian Nationalist movement. You’re not alone. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt by this. Solidarity to you, because I know how lonely it can feel at times.
Everyday it becomes clearer to me what the Christian Nationalist mindset is and it’s frightening. Thank you for your courage and firsthand knowledge to share this with us.
I'm grateful for so many people who are here to learn. You are paying attention. It will take our united effort to defeat them, but we can do it.