Thanks, Andra. More proof that Project 2025 is happening now in Florida.⬇️
The legislature passed a law allowing untrained chaplains as “counselors” in public schools.The Interfaith Council( representing 9 faiths) was against the law. The Satanic Temple wants in and of course, DeSantis said they couldn’t participate. I guess only Christian Nationalist “counselors” need apply…
I was taught that Judaism was a false faith because it rejected Jesus as God. However, because the Jews were "God's chosen people," God would make way for them to be in heaven. In essence, Jesus would forgive them for rejecting him and wouldn't condemn them to eternal damnation. We were always taught to view Jewish people with reverence and awe because Jesus was Jewish. I never experienced anti-Jewish sentiment in my congregation or heard things like, "Jews killed Jesus." I don't know what other churches within Christian Nationalism teach.
Some are puzzled that we reject Christ as “our savior.”
I tell them that Judaism doesn’t require “saving.” Our central core is “tikkun olam,” which is “repair of the world we are in.” And God knows it needs plenty of work.
Everything in Judaism is what we are doing in the world we are in, including worship of God.
The other thing baffled Christians would ask would be about whether or not we’re circumcised.
That was always easy.
“Yes, we’re a cut above all the others.”
However, I will admit that when I was 14, I met a structurally sound if somewhat ignorant girl the same age in Liberty, New York, who asked about whether it was true Jews had horns.
Jesus didn't teach the concept of being "saved" either. That concept came out of the mini-reformation of the 1820s and 30s. It's a relatively recent term.
As to circumcision, I don't understand why people would ask that. It's rude and none of their business. It's an even weirder question because most American baby boys are circumcised, I think, regardless of faith.
They fought an unimaginably bloody European war for 30 years arguing over whether or not a wafer WAS the blood of Christ or REPRESENTED the blood of Christ and whether or not a wafer WAS the body of Christ or REPRESENTED the body of Christ. After both sides were slaughtered, they blamed the war on Jews and killed them.
They love to kill Jews: Crusades, pogroms, Holocaust, and the Spanish Inquisition (you weren’t expecting that…)
Andra, they way I have heard it put is that the goal of Christian Nationalists is to return God to Earth and then once that happens the Jews have to convert to Christianity to be saved. Perhaps that is only some groups. This is what the Jewish publication the Forward says about antisemitism among Christian Nationalists. https://forward.com/opinion/630042/steve-bannon-christian-nationalists-jews/
Here is an article that is more deeply analyzing Christian Nationalist Antisemitism, but neither is disagreeing with you, nor with what I have heard.
I think it is less clear. So, I defer to you as an in person expert. I will believe that many Christian Nationalists do believe that Jews are the Chosen people in that Jesus was a Jew and that God will save them too. I don't think this was the current thinking when I was growing up though. Do you know how long this has been a belief set?
I do see that in Chapter 14, Health and Human Services which I call Unhealthy, Inhumane Services, there is discussion of not letting people who are not married Christian couples foster. And I have heard of a case in a Red State where a Jewish couple is being prevented from fostering a child because the adoption agency is "Christian." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/24/project-2025-adoption-fostering So Antisemitism is as behaviors that people are engaging in with Jews. This is clearly a case of it being a minority and unacceptable religion.
I grew up in the evangelical strain of Christian Nationalism with an apocalyptic End Times belief system. So when Jesus returns to earth to defeat the Anti-Christ, Jews would be given a chance to accept him and go to heaven.
Dominionism (which started in the 90s after I started moving away from my CN upbringing) teaches that Jesus cannot return to earth until Christian control the 7 key mountains. They must create the perfect Christian world for Jesus to return. I don't know if they teach that Jews would be given a chance to accept him then, but I suspect they do as it's in line with what I learned growing up.
As to how long, I think it depends on the sect. Many Catholic sects still teach that the Jews killed Jesus and therefore use that to justify their anti-semitism. These teachings have gone on for centuries and have led to multiple slaughters of Jews and wars. Some Protestant sects likely teach that, too, though again, I didn't grow up in one.
I could see this as a way certain Protestants set themselves apart from Catholics during and after the Reformation, though that's a question for a religious history expert. My church taught from the pulpit that Catholics were going to hell because their faith is "wrong," a teaching that has its roots in the Reformation.
I don't think Christian Nationalists see their rejections of a Jewish couple by a Christian adoption agency as "anti-semitism." They believe they are commanded by God in the Bible to bring up children the way he commands: in homes with one man married to one unrelated woman who are Christians. They use their Bibles to justify many other types of discrimination, and they are deeply offended when we call it that (even though we're calling it what it is.)
My view is that if Catholic Christian Nationalism prevailed, we would see a lot more open anti-semitism and discrimination against all other faiths, including Protestant faiths. If a strain of Protestant Christian Nationalism prevailed, we might see more of an embrace of Judaism as "the flawed religion of God's chosen people," while having the same discrimination against Catholicism and Protestants of other faiths.
I think it is going to be really important for liberals to come up with some direct means of addressing this. So far, calling them "hateful" and "discriminatory" doesn't do much except to other them. It makes me personally feel better, but it isn't always persuasive. We need more persuasive messages that call this out.
As the "umbrella party" the Dems must make room for all kinds of faiths including CNs and NARs. Still some might be ex these religious beliefs. I know that the Democratic party includes racists, but still, I would like to see racism eradicated, and we don't get that with CN and NAR do we?
When I first started talking about this publicly, I did it in short IG videos in mid-2022. I called the group of Christians I describe here “radicalized Christians,” because I don’t like the term Christian Nationalism. But it’s tough to gain traction with a new concept. I decided to use more recognizable terms here.
Still, I wish we had a better umbrella term for the radicalized elements of a particular faith. Many evangelical Christians aren’t CN or NAR; yet because the term “evangelical” was used for this element years ago, they get lumped together. I’ve told evangelical Christians who say, “I’m evangelical…but not THAT kind of evangelical” that it’s up to them to take charge of redefining themselves. Maybe “Evangelicals for Harris” is a start. Many evangelicals are not CN or NAR and openly condemn both.
Given what I know about CN and NAR, I cannot imagine them voting Democrat. They are so opposed to things like abortion and same-sex marriage. Either group would destroy the country to see their Bibles come true. Racism is elemental to their faith, though that’s part of a whole, which teaches them to believe their faith makes them superior to everyone else.
For that reason, I don’t know whether there are CN and NAR folks at the DN Convention. (While I’ll hit the highlights, I don’t watch political conventions. I understand they have a purpose in our Campaign Industrial Complex. But I don’t need a good spectacle to help me decide how to vote. I don’t give a shit about vibes. I’ll write about it if something dovetails with this work, but them saying Project 2025 does not. I’m thrilled to see it, and I know it’s happening in part because this space made a difference.)
I don’t know how we eradicate racism. I had to realize that I was indoctrinated to be a racist and want to change that about myself. Nobody forced me to do the work; I did it because I became appalled at that aspect of myself during my deconstruction. If we refuse to include people in our tent, they may never realize these things about themselves. But that asks too much (in my view) of people who have already endured unspeakable, atrocious, abominable treatment for generations.
The "final" solution to any non-believer in the "one, true God aka Jesus the Christ" is to convert everyone to believe in that God, to become baptized and to accept Jesus as a personal lord and savior. Once that is done, it will bring about god's kingdom on earth. So they say. Um, yeah. There is no acceptance of others, except that they are to be converted. It's a very envangelical point of view also. There's other terms, like witnessing (where you go to non-believers to share the gospel-all about Jesus coming to earth to save people), into the field (the places where there are many non-believers), that the fields are ripe for harvest (which implies that people are ready, willing and desperate to hear the gospel) sharing the "Good News" (that you can be saved by accepting Jesus as your savior) and more that I have forgotten. Yes, I was a part of an evangelical movement for a time (as an adult). Then I grew up and became more compassionate.
The whole thing with this view point is that it is extremely black and white. You are either this or that. There are no shades of gray, nothing is in-between. So, you are christian or you aren't. You are good or bad. You are black or Asian. You are for me or against me. In this world view, you can't like some things about someone, but find other things you don't like. It's kinda exhausting to be around. It does provide structure for those people. Once they figure out a side, they don't have to think anymore. And when they bring god into it, then it's even easier. They don't even have to figure out a side, they just choose the side they believe is god's side.
I hope this is OK to post here. My little town is trying to stop the non permitted building of a 70ft lighted cross which is being built at the top of a local mountain. Because no permits were applied for there was no ability for the town to have their say. The town is very very angry about this and we have started a Change.org petition to try to force the county into halting and removing the eyesore. I have provided the link if anyone is interested in helping us out
As a Jew, I grew up in an all white redlined suburb with many Christian churches…EpiscopalIan, Lutheran, Dutch Reformed, Methodist, etc., and a large Roman Catholic Church. The bullies who taunted me on the bus to Hebrew School with the “Christ killer” abuse were all Catholics. In the fever dream of Russell Vought, are Catholics among the “elect”, or are they a “cult”? Does Leonard Leo know the answer to this question?
Opus Dei Catholics like Leonard Leo and Sam Alito believe they're the elect. Similarly, Protestant Christian Nationalists like Mike Johnson believe they're the elect. While they've banded together to promote the same issues of morality, they will have a holy war over whose faith is the Only True Faith: Catholicism or some Protestant strain. It's yet another reason why we must keep them out of power. We don't need another replay of the 30-years war Kiwiwriter alluded to above. Or more crusades. Or another holocaust.
I actually think Leo and his ilk have been more clever. Every fascist Supreme Court justice is Catholic. Many lower-level judges are, too. Which gives them a lot of power in our current dysfunctional democracy.
I received this in a text this weekend from a friend who is a republican. She said she is sending this out to her Christian friends. 10 Guidelines for Christian Voters by
reformation 21. I didn’t want to put the whole thing here but it can be googled. I read it and it seems entirely against electing a traitorous felon into office. That’s just my take. I was going to tell her to read Project 2025/
I think the order is interesting. Number 3 takes up the most real estate in the list (after a nod to the Bible and prayer in numbers 1 and 2.) Number 3 is his argument to vote for Christian Nationalist Republicans and their supreme leader, 45. The author goes into great detail defining what he believes are "Christian" principles. They align with the goals of Fascist Republicans and Project 2025. It's an effective way to endorse specific candidates while still being able to claim they don't endorse anyone.
Number 3 is the lens through which Christian Nationalists are taught to view every candidate. If a candidate doesn't agree with them on every aspect of that list, they are told not to vote for that candidate. They may not say that so specifically in a public-facing list like this one, but they will say it more forcefully in their Sunday School classes and Bible studies, if not directly from the pulpits.
People, the Georgia board of elections has been taken over by election-denier Republicans. Due to the 12th Amendment to the Constitution, if the states’ electors can’t agree by Dec. 12, the House of Representatives decides where their votes go - which can determine the next president. This is how Trump could “win” even if he loses the electoral college.
A group called Fair Fight is working against the extremists' attempts to illegally cancel voters' registrations. The extremists are submitting records stating that some registered voters are felons, or are deceased – all lies. Check out https://www.fairfight.com/ They help registered voters who were illegally purged get their voting access restored. We can volunteer at Fair Fight, donate money, whatever we can do.
I have a lot of experience through family and friend connections with "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland, where one group of Christians - the Protestants decided that another group of Christians (Catholics) were not worthy of civil rights. So, whose version of Christianity will be chosen in America when Project2025 is implemented? I also remember this language about "the True Faith" being used by my Jehovah Witness grandparents. I was not going to get in to "Paradise Earth" if I didn't convert. If you haven't lived experience where these issues/topics were a reality it is hard to imagine what it is like. I'm trying to spread the word as much as possible.
Because Christian Nationalism is a federation of faiths (Catholic and Protestant) that teach very different things about who is going to heaven. They've formed this coalition to grab power and money, but they will fight a holy war about whose faith will be the Only True Faith if they win in November (or thereafter.) It could be very much like the Spanish Inquisition. Or The Troubles.
Thanks so much, Andra, for your usual detailed and careful analysis! It's interesting that christians think their faith is the "One True Faith" and all others are somehow cults or mythologies--my students at UNF had a very interesting interpretation of the difference between "mythology" and "religion"!! But they never recognized that ALL religions lack any evidence of their truth; faith is defined as belief without evidence, and I decided at 19 that I would not choose one world religion over another because they were all on fours with each other, lacking all evidence. Anyone who tells you he knows what religion is the One True Religion doesn't understand the difference between faith, which is simply belief, and knowledge, which is JUSTIFIED TRUE BELIEF. Justification, evidence, is what separates superstition and false beliefs from real knowledge. That said, as a philosopher I am deeply aware of the battles over a satisfactory standard of justification; many articles and books have put forward theories of adequate justification and objections to those posits.
Also, have you read Jeff Sharlet's latest book _The Undertow: Scenes from a Slow Civil War_? His conversations with christian nationalists and trump fans are astonishing. I can only shake my head that people actually accept these crazy conspiracy theories, like the "secret codes" in trump's tweets that show up in his random capitalizations of words. The book made me sick to my stomach but I am plowing through it for its portrayal of real American fans of the orange turd.
Christian Nationalists don't understand what faith is. Faith is believing something you can't prove because it makes you feel better about the fact that you're going to die. I choose to believe there's something after this life because it makes me feel better. It's more hopeful for me than to believe I die and that's it. I can't prove it. I choose to believe it for me. I don't force it on other people. I respect what anyone believes because they're the only ones on their unique journey to death. That's faith.
Knowledge isn't the opposite of faith. Certainty is. It's telling people you know your belief is true when no one can prove it is. In Christian Nationalism, I was taught an incorrect definition of faith: That it is certainty. This flawed definition of faith underpins their radicalism. I had to teach myself what faith is as an adult, because I never learned as a kid. Plenty of people who are in that world or have been there don't understand what faith is, and therefore don't grasp that we cannot force other people to accept a particular faith.
I like Jeff Sharlet, but I really cannot read much of his work. While it might enrich this space, exposure to these people is very triggering for me. I'm not joking when I say I had to turn off the Russ Vought interview because I started panicking. I can't predict what will take me back there, so I set some firm boundaries for myself, and I adhere to them 90% of the time.
I'm glad his work exists, because it's another means to help Americans who value democracy and freedom understand our enemy.
Certainty is just a mental state, but knowledge is a condition that includes having satisfied the requirement for evidence. I can KNOW that water is H2O, but I can't KNOW that water is CCl4 because it's not true. You can only know true things. Now, there is always a possibility of being wrong in human knowledge except for _a priori_ knowledge like 2+2=4 in base 10 (because of the definitions of numbers and the stability of values in a base) or that the internal angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees. Laws of physics, etc. are called laws because the possiblity that they are false is vanishingly small; even the law of gravity holds at our earth level as Newton formulated it, while it changes lawfully at the speed of light, as Einstein predicted.
I am glad that you avoid people who trigger your PTSD and panic; it's not worth losing your peace of mind over them. You've worked hard for that peace of mind!
I am shocked Christian Nationalists view other religions as a cult! I also do not understand why there are women who are of faith and not of faith are firmly against abortion, given they advocate and fight against their own interests, such as Students for Life of America (SFLA). Andra, can you please explain why this is?
My pastor openly called Islam and Mormonism "cults." Again, I'm sure there are Christian Nationalist churches that DO NOT engage in this kind of name-calling, but in general, Christian Nationalists like Russ Vought believe their faith is the Only True Faith and use terms like "cults" to other people of different faiths.
I said this very early in my Substack, so it bears repeating. Christian Nationalist women are indoctrinated to play a very specific role: submissive wife and mother to husband who rules over her.
I'm not a mother, so I don't want to dismiss that role. But I don't think it should be a woman's only role. I think women should be able to do whatever we want with our lives and should not be held to someone else's definition of what's acceptable or appropriate or allowed.
However, because so many Christian Nationalist women had bigger dreams for themselves, they seethe with resentment toward women who've had choices they didn't have. I believe so many women choose to support groups like Students for Life because they want to force all people who can be pregnant to live the way they have. Then they won't have to be so resentful and angry and affronted. This kind of resentment is a powerful, motivating emotion. It's deeply felt. My own mother resents me profoundly for making different choices. She did everything in her power to ensure I wouldn't have different options than she did. So supporting 45 and Republicans is another way she can force me to be the daughter she wanted instead of the one she got. I hope this makes sense.
Hi Andra, your thorough response makes so much sense. I especially agree with the third paragraph as a life principle everyone should view positively and encourage. Regarding Students for Life, I meant to ask why do young women join the organization to begin with as anti-abortion activists than as supporters (if you know what I mean)? They claim they want to make abortion "unthinkable," but their mentality makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I think lots of young women look for ways to define themselves or find meaning. Students for Life presents compelling ways for women who may have grown up in liberal homes to set themselves apart from their parents, for example. To be her own person with her own opinions as opposed to following their parents. SFLA also gives young women reared in Christian Nationalism an acceptable, Biblically-sanctioned place to be an activist. If it had been around when I was in college, I probably would've been involved. It dovetails perfectly with how I was indoctrinated. I would've seen it as a way to witness to my secular college classmates and encourage them to make "better" choices. At the time, I believed all abortion was murder and all birth control caused abortions. I didn't see it as stifling my own bodily autonomy or personal choices.
That makes so much sense. I wonder if and when indoctrinated individuals will ever realize what happened to them like you... Moreover, SFLA wants the EPA, if Trump is elected, to classify Mifepristone and Misoprostol as a "forever chemical," meaning it would be under strict regulation protocols, and have Congress pass a national abortion reporting law. I do not know what the consequences would be if SLFA succeeded in classifying certain forms of birth control as a "forever chemical," but it seems suspicious to me.
I'm grateful for these "comment conversations" because I keep learning things about myself and my own indoctrination. "Bodily autonomy" is a foreign concept to any Christian Nationalist. They believe our bodies are God's temple; we are not to do anything with our bodies that doesn't glorify him. I didn't even use phrases like "bodily autonomy" until I was 40 or so.
SFLA says that these pills (as well as things like hormonal birth control) are polluting our water supply. (They claim this without evidence.) It's a different line of attack from Louisiana's classifying mifepristone as an addictive "controlled substance" like an opioid, but it accomplishes the same thing. People can't get the drug they need. I don't think this line of attack will progress because they have better ones that are already being tried in the courts. (I don't say "better" because they're good, but because they have better chances of success with our current judiciary.)
SFLA's motive is probably to recruit Gen-Z members who care intensely about the environment, knowing their prior messages have failed and been a political loser. Your answer makes sense, but let's say their current arguments fail and they resort to the EPA claim, does it mean that birth control is legal in name only and inaccessible for anyone to get or stores to order (if there is no federal law in place)? I also find it pathetic "pro-life" groups sue state level reproductive rights ballot initiatives because they morally object. They seem to lose significantly, but not always, and I think they would be wise to recognize that by filing lawsuits, they are wasting time and money by trying to make things difficult that do not need to be. I put pro-life in quotes because they are not pro-life, they are anti-abortion.
From now until the election expect Trump/Vance, P2025, and their billionaires to try to launch offensives to denigrate the American people, particularly minorities, and even Medal of Honor recipients, by way of appearances and TV ads. We have to brace ourselves for a ugly theater, particularly with social media amplifying this. They will try to counter attack the message of joy and hope put forth by Kamala Harris/Tim Walz and other participants at the DNC and during the fall campaign. I am happy for the campaign I saw from Evangelicals for Harris, we need counter efforts such as this to call out Trump/Vance's campaign for the mean spectacle it is. I am grateful for pro democracy outlets such as Lincoln Project and others. I am happy I ignore television news (the media has failed to tell the whole story) and instead get entertainment from internet or live events as an antidote to the politics. I respect those that enjoy TV even if I don't watch its news. Sorry for the chilling words but we need to brace ourselves for this and make sure we all VOTE Democratic to save democracy. Thank you.
Steven, I always appreciate your words. You're right. We cannot be complacent or think the positive energy we're witnessing will let us coast to a win. And we cannot think that our work is done when we win. November is one battle in what is going to be a long war.
There have been many lawgivers outside of the Judaeo-Christian tradition. The Word tells us that God has written (@ least some of ?) the law on the hearts of Gentiles that it) can operate through their consciences (Romans 2:14-15).
Wikipedia (not! as authoritative as God’s Word!!!) has an interesting section on sculpture @ the Supreme Court building that images many of these lawgivers. Christian Nationalists might find it heretical for having non-Judaeo- Christian figures. Of course God created and is Lord over all nations and tribes, not just his chosen ones or those under grace.
Interesting story about Muslims asking that the image of Muhammad be removed (according to their practices he is not to be represented artistically.)
Thanks, Andra. More proof that Project 2025 is happening now in Florida.⬇️
The legislature passed a law allowing untrained chaplains as “counselors” in public schools.The Interfaith Council( representing 9 faiths) was against the law. The Satanic Temple wants in and of course, DeSantis said they couldn’t participate. I guess only Christian Nationalist “counselors” need apply…
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024/08/19/osceola-schools-considering-new-chaplain-program-and-the-satanic-temple-wants-in/?share=neshllonhstnwalotled
Yes. Absolutely an example of taxpayer funding of religious indoctrination in public schools.
I want to know what is their "Final Solution to the Jewish Question."
I can only relay what I was taught.
I was taught that Judaism was a false faith because it rejected Jesus as God. However, because the Jews were "God's chosen people," God would make way for them to be in heaven. In essence, Jesus would forgive them for rejecting him and wouldn't condemn them to eternal damnation. We were always taught to view Jewish people with reverence and awe because Jesus was Jewish. I never experienced anti-Jewish sentiment in my congregation or heard things like, "Jews killed Jesus." I don't know what other churches within Christian Nationalism teach.
I was and am told similar things by Christians.
Some are puzzled that we reject Christ as “our savior.”
I tell them that Judaism doesn’t require “saving.” Our central core is “tikkun olam,” which is “repair of the world we are in.” And God knows it needs plenty of work.
Everything in Judaism is what we are doing in the world we are in, including worship of God.
The other thing baffled Christians would ask would be about whether or not we’re circumcised.
That was always easy.
“Yes, we’re a cut above all the others.”
However, I will admit that when I was 14, I met a structurally sound if somewhat ignorant girl the same age in Liberty, New York, who asked about whether it was true Jews had horns.
“Just one, babe. Would you like to see it?”
Jesus didn't teach the concept of being "saved" either. That concept came out of the mini-reformation of the 1820s and 30s. It's a relatively recent term.
As to circumcision, I don't understand why people would ask that. It's rude and none of their business. It's an even weirder question because most American baby boys are circumcised, I think, regardless of faith.
The biggest things I know about Christianity:
They fought an unimaginably bloody European war for 30 years arguing over whether or not a wafer WAS the blood of Christ or REPRESENTED the blood of Christ and whether or not a wafer WAS the body of Christ or REPRESENTED the body of Christ. After both sides were slaughtered, they blamed the war on Jews and killed them.
They love to kill Jews: Crusades, pogroms, Holocaust, and the Spanish Inquisition (you weren’t expecting that…)
I don't disagree. I think much of Christianity is built on the notion of punishing all Jews for "rejecting" Jesus.
It’s also a protest movement against the Romans, as a classical scholar friend pointed out to me. Much of its rhetoric is similar to protests.
Don’t forget that the “number of the beast” is
DCLXVI.
666.
Roman numeral leggers in order.
Thank you Andra. Very informative and disturbing.
Andra, they way I have heard it put is that the goal of Christian Nationalists is to return God to Earth and then once that happens the Jews have to convert to Christianity to be saved. Perhaps that is only some groups. This is what the Jewish publication the Forward says about antisemitism among Christian Nationalists. https://forward.com/opinion/630042/steve-bannon-christian-nationalists-jews/
Here is an article that is more deeply analyzing Christian Nationalist Antisemitism, but neither is disagreeing with you, nor with what I have heard.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ssqu.13248
I think it is less clear. So, I defer to you as an in person expert. I will believe that many Christian Nationalists do believe that Jews are the Chosen people in that Jesus was a Jew and that God will save them too. I don't think this was the current thinking when I was growing up though. Do you know how long this has been a belief set?
I do see that in Chapter 14, Health and Human Services which I call Unhealthy, Inhumane Services, there is discussion of not letting people who are not married Christian couples foster. And I have heard of a case in a Red State where a Jewish couple is being prevented from fostering a child because the adoption agency is "Christian." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/24/project-2025-adoption-fostering So Antisemitism is as behaviors that people are engaging in with Jews. This is clearly a case of it being a minority and unacceptable religion.
I grew up in the evangelical strain of Christian Nationalism with an apocalyptic End Times belief system. So when Jesus returns to earth to defeat the Anti-Christ, Jews would be given a chance to accept him and go to heaven.
Dominionism (which started in the 90s after I started moving away from my CN upbringing) teaches that Jesus cannot return to earth until Christian control the 7 key mountains. They must create the perfect Christian world for Jesus to return. I don't know if they teach that Jews would be given a chance to accept him then, but I suspect they do as it's in line with what I learned growing up.
As to how long, I think it depends on the sect. Many Catholic sects still teach that the Jews killed Jesus and therefore use that to justify their anti-semitism. These teachings have gone on for centuries and have led to multiple slaughters of Jews and wars. Some Protestant sects likely teach that, too, though again, I didn't grow up in one.
I could see this as a way certain Protestants set themselves apart from Catholics during and after the Reformation, though that's a question for a religious history expert. My church taught from the pulpit that Catholics were going to hell because their faith is "wrong," a teaching that has its roots in the Reformation.
I don't think Christian Nationalists see their rejections of a Jewish couple by a Christian adoption agency as "anti-semitism." They believe they are commanded by God in the Bible to bring up children the way he commands: in homes with one man married to one unrelated woman who are Christians. They use their Bibles to justify many other types of discrimination, and they are deeply offended when we call it that (even though we're calling it what it is.)
My view is that if Catholic Christian Nationalism prevailed, we would see a lot more open anti-semitism and discrimination against all other faiths, including Protestant faiths. If a strain of Protestant Christian Nationalism prevailed, we might see more of an embrace of Judaism as "the flawed religion of God's chosen people," while having the same discrimination against Catholicism and Protestants of other faiths.
I think it is going to be really important for liberals to come up with some direct means of addressing this. So far, calling them "hateful" and "discriminatory" doesn't do much except to other them. It makes me personally feel better, but it isn't always persuasive. We need more persuasive messages that call this out.
It seems like there is movement to include Evangelical Christians in the Democratic party as they too have a group that is supporting Harris. Here is what Charlotte Clymer says about that. https://charlotteclymer.substack.com/p/wait-evangelicals-for-harris
As the "umbrella party" the Dems must make room for all kinds of faiths including CNs and NARs. Still some might be ex these religious beliefs. I know that the Democratic party includes racists, but still, I would like to see racism eradicated, and we don't get that with CN and NAR do we?
When I first started talking about this publicly, I did it in short IG videos in mid-2022. I called the group of Christians I describe here “radicalized Christians,” because I don’t like the term Christian Nationalism. But it’s tough to gain traction with a new concept. I decided to use more recognizable terms here.
Still, I wish we had a better umbrella term for the radicalized elements of a particular faith. Many evangelical Christians aren’t CN or NAR; yet because the term “evangelical” was used for this element years ago, they get lumped together. I’ve told evangelical Christians who say, “I’m evangelical…but not THAT kind of evangelical” that it’s up to them to take charge of redefining themselves. Maybe “Evangelicals for Harris” is a start. Many evangelicals are not CN or NAR and openly condemn both.
Given what I know about CN and NAR, I cannot imagine them voting Democrat. They are so opposed to things like abortion and same-sex marriage. Either group would destroy the country to see their Bibles come true. Racism is elemental to their faith, though that’s part of a whole, which teaches them to believe their faith makes them superior to everyone else.
For that reason, I don’t know whether there are CN and NAR folks at the DN Convention. (While I’ll hit the highlights, I don’t watch political conventions. I understand they have a purpose in our Campaign Industrial Complex. But I don’t need a good spectacle to help me decide how to vote. I don’t give a shit about vibes. I’ll write about it if something dovetails with this work, but them saying Project 2025 does not. I’m thrilled to see it, and I know it’s happening in part because this space made a difference.)
I don’t know how we eradicate racism. I had to realize that I was indoctrinated to be a racist and want to change that about myself. Nobody forced me to do the work; I did it because I became appalled at that aspect of myself during my deconstruction. If we refuse to include people in our tent, they may never realize these things about themselves. But that asks too much (in my view) of people who have already endured unspeakable, atrocious, abominable treatment for generations.
The "final" solution to any non-believer in the "one, true God aka Jesus the Christ" is to convert everyone to believe in that God, to become baptized and to accept Jesus as a personal lord and savior. Once that is done, it will bring about god's kingdom on earth. So they say. Um, yeah. There is no acceptance of others, except that they are to be converted. It's a very envangelical point of view also. There's other terms, like witnessing (where you go to non-believers to share the gospel-all about Jesus coming to earth to save people), into the field (the places where there are many non-believers), that the fields are ripe for harvest (which implies that people are ready, willing and desperate to hear the gospel) sharing the "Good News" (that you can be saved by accepting Jesus as your savior) and more that I have forgotten. Yes, I was a part of an evangelical movement for a time (as an adult). Then I grew up and became more compassionate.
The whole thing with this view point is that it is extremely black and white. You are either this or that. There are no shades of gray, nothing is in-between. So, you are christian or you aren't. You are good or bad. You are black or Asian. You are for me or against me. In this world view, you can't like some things about someone, but find other things you don't like. It's kinda exhausting to be around. It does provide structure for those people. Once they figure out a side, they don't have to think anymore. And when they bring god into it, then it's even easier. They don't even have to figure out a side, they just choose the side they believe is god's side.
It is extremely black and white, yes. And the white man in charge always tells you what's black and what's white.
Those folks often forget that God is quite Impersonal about His children.
He slaughters them quite often, in vile ways, and with great efficiency.
I hope this is OK to post here. My little town is trying to stop the non permitted building of a 70ft lighted cross which is being built at the top of a local mountain. Because no permits were applied for there was no ability for the town to have their say. The town is very very angry about this and we have started a Change.org petition to try to force the county into halting and removing the eyesore. I have provided the link if anyone is interested in helping us out
https://www.change.org/p/demand-accountability-for-unpermitted-70-foot-christian-cross-on-tumwater-mountain?recruiter=137440525&recruited_by_id=e98e3f50-1e53-11e4-8d8a-c3d8546c32a3&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink
I signed it and hope others will, too.
Also signed. I have been to Leavenworth, WA and absolutely loved it. So beautiful. Best to you.
Troubling and sickening. We must stop this. Thanks to you and all who are shedding light on this.
We must stop it. And we will.
💪🏼💕
As a Jew, I grew up in an all white redlined suburb with many Christian churches…EpiscopalIan, Lutheran, Dutch Reformed, Methodist, etc., and a large Roman Catholic Church. The bullies who taunted me on the bus to Hebrew School with the “Christ killer” abuse were all Catholics. In the fever dream of Russell Vought, are Catholics among the “elect”, or are they a “cult”? Does Leonard Leo know the answer to this question?
My experience with Catholicism has been "Jews were Christ killers" also.
I wrote about this elsewhere: https://project2025istheocracy.substack.com/p/if-christo-fascist-republicans-win?utm_source=publication-search
Opus Dei Catholics like Leonard Leo and Sam Alito believe they're the elect. Similarly, Protestant Christian Nationalists like Mike Johnson believe they're the elect. While they've banded together to promote the same issues of morality, they will have a holy war over whose faith is the Only True Faith: Catholicism or some Protestant strain. It's yet another reason why we must keep them out of power. We don't need another replay of the 30-years war Kiwiwriter alluded to above. Or more crusades. Or another holocaust.
I’m just wondering if the OD guys are in for a rude awakening when the torch and pitchfork crowd (with AR15s) comes for them.
I actually think Leo and his ilk have been more clever. Every fascist Supreme Court justice is Catholic. Many lower-level judges are, too. Which gives them a lot of power in our current dysfunctional democracy.
I received this in a text this weekend from a friend who is a republican. She said she is sending this out to her Christian friends. 10 Guidelines for Christian Voters by
reformation 21. I didn’t want to put the whole thing here but it can be googled. I read it and it seems entirely against electing a traitorous felon into office. That’s just my take. I was going to tell her to read Project 2025/
This list was made for the 2020 election (at least, the one I found was.) https://www.reformation21.org/blog/10-guidelines-for-christian-voters
I think the order is interesting. Number 3 takes up the most real estate in the list (after a nod to the Bible and prayer in numbers 1 and 2.) Number 3 is his argument to vote for Christian Nationalist Republicans and their supreme leader, 45. The author goes into great detail defining what he believes are "Christian" principles. They align with the goals of Fascist Republicans and Project 2025. It's an effective way to endorse specific candidates while still being able to claim they don't endorse anyone.
Number 3 is the lens through which Christian Nationalists are taught to view every candidate. If a candidate doesn't agree with them on every aspect of that list, they are told not to vote for that candidate. They may not say that so specifically in a public-facing list like this one, but they will say it more forcefully in their Sunday School classes and Bible studies, if not directly from the pulpits.
I always appreciate your insights. Thanks so much.
You're welcome. I'm grateful you're here.
People, the Georgia board of elections has been taken over by election-denier Republicans. Due to the 12th Amendment to the Constitution, if the states’ electors can’t agree by Dec. 12, the House of Representatives decides where their votes go - which can determine the next president. This is how Trump could “win” even if he loses the electoral college.
See these articles - Rachel Maddow explains it - https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/19/opinion/trump-election-vote-certification.html - Also - https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/19/opinion/trump-election-vote-certification.html
A group called Fair Fight is working against the extremists' attempts to illegally cancel voters' registrations. The extremists are submitting records stating that some registered voters are felons, or are deceased – all lies. Check out https://www.fairfight.com/ They help registered voters who were illegally purged get their voting access restored. We can volunteer at Fair Fight, donate money, whatever we can do.
Let's get moving, folks!
I shared this CREW link last week, and I'll put it here: https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/election-certification-under-threat/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
NOT that this study is an excuse to avoid supporting Fair Fight. We should all support them and their work right now.
Thanks Andra I had not heard about this group but I will definitely look into it
I have a lot of experience through family and friend connections with "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland, where one group of Christians - the Protestants decided that another group of Christians (Catholics) were not worthy of civil rights. So, whose version of Christianity will be chosen in America when Project2025 is implemented? I also remember this language about "the True Faith" being used by my Jehovah Witness grandparents. I was not going to get in to "Paradise Earth" if I didn't convert. If you haven't lived experience where these issues/topics were a reality it is hard to imagine what it is like. I'm trying to spread the word as much as possible.
I wrote about this here: https://project2025istheocracy.substack.com/p/if-christo-fascist-republicans-win?utm_source=publication-search
Because Christian Nationalism is a federation of faiths (Catholic and Protestant) that teach very different things about who is going to heaven. They've formed this coalition to grab power and money, but they will fight a holy war about whose faith will be the Only True Faith if they win in November (or thereafter.) It could be very much like the Spanish Inquisition. Or The Troubles.
Thanks so much, Andra, for your usual detailed and careful analysis! It's interesting that christians think their faith is the "One True Faith" and all others are somehow cults or mythologies--my students at UNF had a very interesting interpretation of the difference between "mythology" and "religion"!! But they never recognized that ALL religions lack any evidence of their truth; faith is defined as belief without evidence, and I decided at 19 that I would not choose one world religion over another because they were all on fours with each other, lacking all evidence. Anyone who tells you he knows what religion is the One True Religion doesn't understand the difference between faith, which is simply belief, and knowledge, which is JUSTIFIED TRUE BELIEF. Justification, evidence, is what separates superstition and false beliefs from real knowledge. That said, as a philosopher I am deeply aware of the battles over a satisfactory standard of justification; many articles and books have put forward theories of adequate justification and objections to those posits.
Also, have you read Jeff Sharlet's latest book _The Undertow: Scenes from a Slow Civil War_? His conversations with christian nationalists and trump fans are astonishing. I can only shake my head that people actually accept these crazy conspiracy theories, like the "secret codes" in trump's tweets that show up in his random capitalizations of words. The book made me sick to my stomach but I am plowing through it for its portrayal of real American fans of the orange turd.
Christian Nationalists don't understand what faith is. Faith is believing something you can't prove because it makes you feel better about the fact that you're going to die. I choose to believe there's something after this life because it makes me feel better. It's more hopeful for me than to believe I die and that's it. I can't prove it. I choose to believe it for me. I don't force it on other people. I respect what anyone believes because they're the only ones on their unique journey to death. That's faith.
Knowledge isn't the opposite of faith. Certainty is. It's telling people you know your belief is true when no one can prove it is. In Christian Nationalism, I was taught an incorrect definition of faith: That it is certainty. This flawed definition of faith underpins their radicalism. I had to teach myself what faith is as an adult, because I never learned as a kid. Plenty of people who are in that world or have been there don't understand what faith is, and therefore don't grasp that we cannot force other people to accept a particular faith.
I like Jeff Sharlet, but I really cannot read much of his work. While it might enrich this space, exposure to these people is very triggering for me. I'm not joking when I say I had to turn off the Russ Vought interview because I started panicking. I can't predict what will take me back there, so I set some firm boundaries for myself, and I adhere to them 90% of the time.
I'm glad his work exists, because it's another means to help Americans who value democracy and freedom understand our enemy.
Certainty is just a mental state, but knowledge is a condition that includes having satisfied the requirement for evidence. I can KNOW that water is H2O, but I can't KNOW that water is CCl4 because it's not true. You can only know true things. Now, there is always a possibility of being wrong in human knowledge except for _a priori_ knowledge like 2+2=4 in base 10 (because of the definitions of numbers and the stability of values in a base) or that the internal angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees. Laws of physics, etc. are called laws because the possiblity that they are false is vanishingly small; even the law of gravity holds at our earth level as Newton formulated it, while it changes lawfully at the speed of light, as Einstein predicted.
I am glad that you avoid people who trigger your PTSD and panic; it's not worth losing your peace of mind over them. You've worked hard for that peace of mind!
I am shocked Christian Nationalists view other religions as a cult! I also do not understand why there are women who are of faith and not of faith are firmly against abortion, given they advocate and fight against their own interests, such as Students for Life of America (SFLA). Andra, can you please explain why this is?
My pastor openly called Islam and Mormonism "cults." Again, I'm sure there are Christian Nationalist churches that DO NOT engage in this kind of name-calling, but in general, Christian Nationalists like Russ Vought believe their faith is the Only True Faith and use terms like "cults" to other people of different faiths.
I said this very early in my Substack, so it bears repeating. Christian Nationalist women are indoctrinated to play a very specific role: submissive wife and mother to husband who rules over her.
I'm not a mother, so I don't want to dismiss that role. But I don't think it should be a woman's only role. I think women should be able to do whatever we want with our lives and should not be held to someone else's definition of what's acceptable or appropriate or allowed.
However, because so many Christian Nationalist women had bigger dreams for themselves, they seethe with resentment toward women who've had choices they didn't have. I believe so many women choose to support groups like Students for Life because they want to force all people who can be pregnant to live the way they have. Then they won't have to be so resentful and angry and affronted. This kind of resentment is a powerful, motivating emotion. It's deeply felt. My own mother resents me profoundly for making different choices. She did everything in her power to ensure I wouldn't have different options than she did. So supporting 45 and Republicans is another way she can force me to be the daughter she wanted instead of the one she got. I hope this makes sense.
Hi Andra, your thorough response makes so much sense. I especially agree with the third paragraph as a life principle everyone should view positively and encourage. Regarding Students for Life, I meant to ask why do young women join the organization to begin with as anti-abortion activists than as supporters (if you know what I mean)? They claim they want to make abortion "unthinkable," but their mentality makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I think lots of young women look for ways to define themselves or find meaning. Students for Life presents compelling ways for women who may have grown up in liberal homes to set themselves apart from their parents, for example. To be her own person with her own opinions as opposed to following their parents. SFLA also gives young women reared in Christian Nationalism an acceptable, Biblically-sanctioned place to be an activist. If it had been around when I was in college, I probably would've been involved. It dovetails perfectly with how I was indoctrinated. I would've seen it as a way to witness to my secular college classmates and encourage them to make "better" choices. At the time, I believed all abortion was murder and all birth control caused abortions. I didn't see it as stifling my own bodily autonomy or personal choices.
That makes so much sense. I wonder if and when indoctrinated individuals will ever realize what happened to them like you... Moreover, SFLA wants the EPA, if Trump is elected, to classify Mifepristone and Misoprostol as a "forever chemical," meaning it would be under strict regulation protocols, and have Congress pass a national abortion reporting law. I do not know what the consequences would be if SLFA succeeded in classifying certain forms of birth control as a "forever chemical," but it seems suspicious to me.
I'm grateful for these "comment conversations" because I keep learning things about myself and my own indoctrination. "Bodily autonomy" is a foreign concept to any Christian Nationalist. They believe our bodies are God's temple; we are not to do anything with our bodies that doesn't glorify him. I didn't even use phrases like "bodily autonomy" until I was 40 or so.
SFLA says that these pills (as well as things like hormonal birth control) are polluting our water supply. (They claim this without evidence.) It's a different line of attack from Louisiana's classifying mifepristone as an addictive "controlled substance" like an opioid, but it accomplishes the same thing. People can't get the drug they need. I don't think this line of attack will progress because they have better ones that are already being tried in the courts. (I don't say "better" because they're good, but because they have better chances of success with our current judiciary.)
SFLA's motive is probably to recruit Gen-Z members who care intensely about the environment, knowing their prior messages have failed and been a political loser. Your answer makes sense, but let's say their current arguments fail and they resort to the EPA claim, does it mean that birth control is legal in name only and inaccessible for anyone to get or stores to order (if there is no federal law in place)? I also find it pathetic "pro-life" groups sue state level reproductive rights ballot initiatives because they morally object. They seem to lose significantly, but not always, and I think they would be wise to recognize that by filing lawsuits, they are wasting time and money by trying to make things difficult that do not need to be. I put pro-life in quotes because they are not pro-life, they are anti-abortion.
From now until the election expect Trump/Vance, P2025, and their billionaires to try to launch offensives to denigrate the American people, particularly minorities, and even Medal of Honor recipients, by way of appearances and TV ads. We have to brace ourselves for a ugly theater, particularly with social media amplifying this. They will try to counter attack the message of joy and hope put forth by Kamala Harris/Tim Walz and other participants at the DNC and during the fall campaign. I am happy for the campaign I saw from Evangelicals for Harris, we need counter efforts such as this to call out Trump/Vance's campaign for the mean spectacle it is. I am grateful for pro democracy outlets such as Lincoln Project and others. I am happy I ignore television news (the media has failed to tell the whole story) and instead get entertainment from internet or live events as an antidote to the politics. I respect those that enjoy TV even if I don't watch its news. Sorry for the chilling words but we need to brace ourselves for this and make sure we all VOTE Democratic to save democracy. Thank you.
Steven, I always appreciate your words. You're right. We cannot be complacent or think the positive energy we're witnessing will let us coast to a win. And we cannot think that our work is done when we win. November is one battle in what is going to be a long war.
There have been many lawgivers outside of the Judaeo-Christian tradition. The Word tells us that God has written (@ least some of ?) the law on the hearts of Gentiles that it) can operate through their consciences (Romans 2:14-15).
Wikipedia (not! as authoritative as God’s Word!!!) has an interesting section on sculpture @ the Supreme Court building that images many of these lawgivers. Christian Nationalists might find it heretical for having non-Judaeo- Christian figures. Of course God created and is Lord over all nations and tribes, not just his chosen ones or those under grace.
Interesting story about Muslims asking that the image of Muhammad be removed (according to their practices he is not to be represented artistically.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Supreme_Court_Building
You're welcome. I'm glad it's helpful.