Thanks Andra. I was aware of the reference. I read that the reference was also used for women of color in relation to slavery times. Unfortunately it appears it can still be applied in racism today. It is anti woman and lacks a loving kindness towards women and everyone.
It isn’t only racist, though it has been used it racist contexts. It is one of their foundational stories about women and their perceived need to keep women secondary and controlled.
No different than the Catholic church claiming Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. The largest and most misogynistic men's organization in the world - of course they're going to claim Mary Magdalene was a prostitute- they can't bear to give any credit to any woman whatsoever - unless it was Mother Teresa who actually made people suffer because she claimed it brought them closer to god.
The vast majority of theologians who have investigated Mary Magdalene over the past 25 years pretty much all agree, she was no prostitute- she was the primary confidant of jesus.
Isn't Jezabel a stand in for witch? We are looking at some middle ages thinking about women. It is truly sickening and frightening. Everytime I hear things like this I admire your strength to break away from this world, and I am also afraid for Kamala Harris because of the hatred that is engendered by men like this.
Jezebel *can be* construed as *witch,* but it more generally means *wicked woman* or *woman who doesn’t know to stay in her place.* They use it to warn people about ambitious women or women who aspire to lead. She is what happens, they shriek, when women are leaders.
He applies *witchcraft* to her because of her Baal-worship, with Baal being a *false god* as opposed to the One True God of the Israelites. These are 2 different ways of othering, though we can tease out even more.
Jezebel was a Phoenician princess who married Ahab, a king of Israel. Therefore, she was FOREIGN. She was an IMMIGRANT. Nativism and hatred for immigrants can also be traced to this Bible story, though there are others.
The concept of Jezebel spirit expanded to include ALL people Christian extremists throughout history have tried to other. It has often been applied to Peoples of Color in racist contexts. (He uses it in reference to Obama here.) This is a racist “know your place” use.
Agreed. I read the book, Killing the Black Body. It is an account of the way women of color were treated by white society and how they are reproductively controlled and societal attitudes. A grueling history of inhumane treatment of women of color.
Did we just time travel back 300 years to Salem? I feel like I live in an episode of the Twilight Zone most days.
I guess we collectively need to see all the nuttiness going on so we can’t pretend it doesn’t exist anymore. Jezebel? Witches? The occult? The biggest evil I see is rooted in the right wing ideology of white supremacy and survival of the patriarchy,
The witchcraft reference has been around for millennia, spewed by people just like these to oppress and murder anyone they "other." I tie this reference back to where I wrote about Russ Vought and how he believes Christian Nationalists like him are the only true believers and worship the One True God. Any other faith (and no faith) is witchcraft, because they believe it is the worship of false gods. In that world, worshipping false gods is one definition of witchcraft.
“Dog whistle” - a phrase referencing a learned response (see Pavlov) in dogs - and humans - who’ve been deliberately conditioned from birth to respond and react (unthinkingly) to those commands.
I.e., “THIS is what you will see when I say ………. “ ex: “jezebelle”
- and you will be repelled, disgusted, see an enemy (of god, order, salvation.. )OR go the hell.
the control religion, used as thought control since the first human realized they can use fear to dominate others.. and here, once again wielded as a cudgel.
I submitted a GOTV Letter To Ed yesterday and included Gov Huckabee Sanders comments on VP Harris. Originally I had included the Jezebel reference from these wackos but took it out fearing they wouldn’t print. Let’s see if they print it since I did write CN politicians believe women without biological children can’t be “saved”….
I am interested as to why the same sentiment is not shared by Christian Nationalists in regards to Republican women politicians, given the patriarchal beliefs of many Christian Nationalists, that women should be homemakers and wives, and should not occupy positions of power, with some even wanting to repeal the 19th amendment.
Christian Nationalists have long understood that white men cannot persuade enough women to vote against their interests. They target white women specifically with white women. they use women like Candace Owens to target Black women.
These women are happy to participate in subjugating and oppressing other women, because they get a lot of power. They think they will keep this power if they succeed, but they are wrong. They may be in a higher class than other women, but they will still be women who will be forced to submit to men, without the power and influence they once enjoyed.
I have heard Amy Coney Barrett referred to as a Serena Joy from Handmaid's Tale. Serena got a rude awakening about the loss of power in the world she helped create in Gilead. What little she had left she used to abuse lower class women in that world. If Amy gets her theocracy, won't she be surprised when she is eventually booted off the Supreme Court and sent home to domesticity?
The Hulu series Mrs America also shows this in a real life example. Phyllis Schaffley thought Reagan would reward her for all her efforts to get him elected. She was sadly disappointed. She should have gone with Chisholm.
Ooh, I meant to comment on this earlier and then I forgot.
Just a random addition to the conversation, but 100 years ago, or in 2010, whichever came first, I worked for Truth Wins Out, which has for a long time fought against the gross "ex-gay" and "ex-LGBTQ," pray away the gay industry.
And I got to infiltrate one of Lou Engle's home church revival things, AKA the stuff that's not meant for the cameras. Basically I had to play Pentecostal, or at least go through enough motions not to arouse suspicions.
Lou's entire talk that night was about THE JEZEBEL GENERATION, how they were in a great spiritual battle between holiness and the spirit of Jezebel, which as far as I could tell was pretty much everyone who wasn't as religiously pure as Lou Engle and the members of his church.
They've been on this a long while, as you know.
My article about it appears to have disappeared, but I found it in the Wayback Machine, if you wanna read about weird Lou Engle revivals and his son's fever dreams of three-story-tall gay people.
Interesting that he applies spirit of Jezebel to Vice President Kamala Harris but refuses to recognize the lies and hate of Trump. There is only evil emanating from Trump. These men are following a false prophet.
Exactly - or the fact that Trump has broken nine of the Ten Commandments. I'm not aware that he's murdered anyone but I wouldn't be surprised if he hired it out.
"Christian Nationalists believe worshipping any god but the One True God is heresy and witchcraft"
4000 religions on this planet - and every single one of them thinks ONLY THEIR god is the REAL god and ONLY THEIR god is the RIGHT god.
But yet NONE of them can even prove god or heaven or hell or any of it exists.
I'm less inclined to think all these types of men have been indoctrinated by the Old Testament, to me that feels like I'm giving them an excuse for their bad behavior. While their upbringing may have played some role in some of these men's misogynistic beliefs.....for others, I feel it is more deep-seated hate towards women - and/or jealousy of our success. Instead of celebrating their wives, daughters, sisters they must constantly put us down, call us names, tell us to stay in our swim lane, tell us to get married and have kids, tell us how to vote, etc. To me they are more like conspiracy theorists - like an Alex Jones claiming that the government is putting shit in water to make kids gay or that Michelle Obama was really a man.
To further the point in your article, agreed that regardless of their origin reasons- it doesn't change the hate they are spewing, whether they invoke Jezebel or the childless cat lady......it's meant to demean women.
This has existed as long as humans have…this need to dominate and subjugate and control will never entirely go away. We must show up and keep defeating it.
I know plenty of men who don’t like women. They’d be angry if I said that, but it’s all in the way they treat women. Do they say hello to me or talk to my husband like I’m not there when we’re together? Do they include me in conversation? Do they listen when I talk, or do they interrupt me and talk over me? These are all tells on men who don’t like women.
The thing that really gets me is don-old saying he will save all the women and they won’t have to worry about abortion anymore. Who made him the savior? My mantra has been that we cannot stop doing everything we can to get Harris-Walz elected. “We will never go back!”
Thanks Andra. I was aware of the reference. I read that the reference was also used for women of color in relation to slavery times. Unfortunately it appears it can still be applied in racism today. It is anti woman and lacks a loving kindness towards women and everyone.
It isn’t only racist, though it has been used it racist contexts. It is one of their foundational stories about women and their perceived need to keep women secondary and controlled.
No different than the Catholic church claiming Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. The largest and most misogynistic men's organization in the world - of course they're going to claim Mary Magdalene was a prostitute- they can't bear to give any credit to any woman whatsoever - unless it was Mother Teresa who actually made people suffer because she claimed it brought them closer to god.
The vast majority of theologians who have investigated Mary Magdalene over the past 25 years pretty much all agree, she was no prostitute- she was the primary confidant of jesus.
Pretty much every woman in the Bible had something “wrong” with her or had to have a man telling her what to do.
Yes, it's interesting that he only applied it to her and Obama, both people of color.
His usage is certainly racist. In the church I grew up in, Jezebel was applied to women who didn’t know their place.
Isn't Jezabel a stand in for witch? We are looking at some middle ages thinking about women. It is truly sickening and frightening. Everytime I hear things like this I admire your strength to break away from this world, and I am also afraid for Kamala Harris because of the hatred that is engendered by men like this.
Jezebel *can be* construed as *witch,* but it more generally means *wicked woman* or *woman who doesn’t know to stay in her place.* They use it to warn people about ambitious women or women who aspire to lead. She is what happens, they shriek, when women are leaders.
He applies *witchcraft* to her because of her Baal-worship, with Baal being a *false god* as opposed to the One True God of the Israelites. These are 2 different ways of othering, though we can tease out even more.
Jezebel was a Phoenician princess who married Ahab, a king of Israel. Therefore, she was FOREIGN. She was an IMMIGRANT. Nativism and hatred for immigrants can also be traced to this Bible story, though there are others.
The concept of Jezebel spirit expanded to include ALL people Christian extremists throughout history have tried to other. It has often been applied to Peoples of Color in racist contexts. (He uses it in reference to Obama here.) This is a racist “know your place” use.
Andra, thank you for explaining the nuances. It is very disturbing and disturbed.
Agreed. I read the book, Killing the Black Body. It is an account of the way women of color were treated by white society and how they are reproductively controlled and societal attitudes. A grueling history of inhumane treatment of women of color.
Did we just time travel back 300 years to Salem? I feel like I live in an episode of the Twilight Zone most days.
I guess we collectively need to see all the nuttiness going on so we can’t pretend it doesn’t exist anymore. Jezebel? Witches? The occult? The biggest evil I see is rooted in the right wing ideology of white supremacy and survival of the patriarchy,
The witchcraft reference has been around for millennia, spewed by people just like these to oppress and murder anyone they "other." I tie this reference back to where I wrote about Russ Vought and how he believes Christian Nationalists like him are the only true believers and worship the One True God. Any other faith (and no faith) is witchcraft, because they believe it is the worship of false gods. In that world, worshipping false gods is one definition of witchcraft.
I've been using the Twilight Zone example for quite a while now- the most fucked up Twilight Zone episode ever
But it is valuable to know your enemy’s weaknesses. Their zealotry is a weakness.
“Dog whistle” - a phrase referencing a learned response (see Pavlov) in dogs - and humans - who’ve been deliberately conditioned from birth to respond and react (unthinkingly) to those commands.
I.e., “THIS is what you will see when I say ………. “ ex: “jezebelle”
- and you will be repelled, disgusted, see an enemy (of god, order, salvation.. )OR go the hell.
the control religion, used as thought control since the first human realized they can use fear to dominate others.. and here, once again wielded as a cudgel.
This particular dog whistle sounds crazy to people who don't know what it means. I think knowing the meaning behind it makes it so so so much worse.
I submitted a GOTV Letter To Ed yesterday and included Gov Huckabee Sanders comments on VP Harris. Originally I had included the Jezebel reference from these wackos but took it out fearing they wouldn’t print. Let’s see if they print it since I did write CN politicians believe women without biological children can’t be “saved”….
You are a force with Letters to the Editor, Kathy. I think more people need to understand and condemn these references. They are wrong and cruel.
I am interested as to why the same sentiment is not shared by Christian Nationalists in regards to Republican women politicians, given the patriarchal beliefs of many Christian Nationalists, that women should be homemakers and wives, and should not occupy positions of power, with some even wanting to repeal the 19th amendment.
Hey Tony. Great observation.
Christian Nationalists have long understood that white men cannot persuade enough women to vote against their interests. They target white women specifically with white women. they use women like Candace Owens to target Black women.
These women are happy to participate in subjugating and oppressing other women, because they get a lot of power. They think they will keep this power if they succeed, but they are wrong. They may be in a higher class than other women, but they will still be women who will be forced to submit to men, without the power and influence they once enjoyed.
I have heard Amy Coney Barrett referred to as a Serena Joy from Handmaid's Tale. Serena got a rude awakening about the loss of power in the world she helped create in Gilead. What little she had left she used to abuse lower class women in that world. If Amy gets her theocracy, won't she be surprised when she is eventually booted off the Supreme Court and sent home to domesticity?
Right. Great example.
"Surely the leopard wouldn't eat MY face."
The Hulu series Mrs America also shows this in a real life example. Phyllis Schaffley thought Reagan would reward her for all her efforts to get him elected. She was sadly disappointed. She should have gone with Chisholm.
Ugh. She was so awful.
Ooh, I meant to comment on this earlier and then I forgot.
Just a random addition to the conversation, but 100 years ago, or in 2010, whichever came first, I worked for Truth Wins Out, which has for a long time fought against the gross "ex-gay" and "ex-LGBTQ," pray away the gay industry.
And I got to infiltrate one of Lou Engle's home church revival things, AKA the stuff that's not meant for the cameras. Basically I had to play Pentecostal, or at least go through enough motions not to arouse suspicions.
Lou's entire talk that night was about THE JEZEBEL GENERATION, how they were in a great spiritual battle between holiness and the spirit of Jezebel, which as far as I could tell was pretty much everyone who wasn't as religiously pure as Lou Engle and the members of his church.
They've been on this a long while, as you know.
My article about it appears to have disappeared, but I found it in the Wayback Machine, if you wanna read about weird Lou Engle revivals and his son's fever dreams of three-story-tall gay people.
https://web.archive.org/web/20100713025006/https://truthwinsout.org/blog/2010/06/9408/
Evan!! I’m so glad you remembered to post this. Pulling it up to read on a flight. You and I need to have a nice sit down someday.
100%!
Interesting that he applies spirit of Jezebel to Vice President Kamala Harris but refuses to recognize the lies and hate of Trump. There is only evil emanating from Trump. These men are following a false prophet.
They hear and see what they want to hear and see. They've invested too much in 45 to abandon him now. He is their god.
Exactly - or the fact that Trump has broken nine of the Ten Commandments. I'm not aware that he's murdered anyone but I wouldn't be surprised if he hired it out.
In my view, he murdered over 1 million Americans during the pandemic.
True. Plus the riots insurrection, the hate crimes.
"Christian Nationalists believe worshipping any god but the One True God is heresy and witchcraft"
4000 religions on this planet - and every single one of them thinks ONLY THEIR god is the REAL god and ONLY THEIR god is the RIGHT god.
But yet NONE of them can even prove god or heaven or hell or any of it exists.
I'm less inclined to think all these types of men have been indoctrinated by the Old Testament, to me that feels like I'm giving them an excuse for their bad behavior. While their upbringing may have played some role in some of these men's misogynistic beliefs.....for others, I feel it is more deep-seated hate towards women - and/or jealousy of our success. Instead of celebrating their wives, daughters, sisters they must constantly put us down, call us names, tell us to stay in our swim lane, tell us to get married and have kids, tell us how to vote, etc. To me they are more like conspiracy theorists - like an Alex Jones claiming that the government is putting shit in water to make kids gay or that Michelle Obama was really a man.
To further the point in your article, agreed that regardless of their origin reasons- it doesn't change the hate they are spewing, whether they invoke Jezebel or the childless cat lady......it's meant to demean women.
This has existed as long as humans have…this need to dominate and subjugate and control will never entirely go away. We must show up and keep defeating it.
I know plenty of men who don’t like women. They’d be angry if I said that, but it’s all in the way they treat women. Do they say hello to me or talk to my husband like I’m not there when we’re together? Do they include me in conversation? Do they listen when I talk, or do they interrupt me and talk over me? These are all tells on men who don’t like women.
The thing that really gets me is don-old saying he will save all the women and they won’t have to worry about abortion anymore. Who made him the savior? My mantra has been that we cannot stop doing everything we can to get Harris-Walz elected. “We will never go back!”
He babbles nonsense, and he doesn’t give one good bowel movement about anyone but himself.
(My editing clipped the last part of this comment - but as the message is there, I’ll leave it)
Excellent!